Комик Робби Хоффман во время интервью попросила поднять трубку, чтобы не пропустить «что-то безумное»

Robby Hoffman took a call during our interview in case it was 'something crazy.' (It was) There’s a gripe in the comedy scene these days that ‘you can’t say anything anymore.’ Robby Hoffman doesn’t buy it. Comedian Robby Hoffman says she's still figuring out what topics, if any, are "off limits" in her work. But what remains solidly in-bounds is centering her experiences with abject candor, even if it means taking a call in the middle of a recorded interview. "Let me pick up, because what if it's something crazy?" she asked during a recent conversation for NPR's Newsmakers podcast at The Comedy Store in Los Angeles. "So, it wasn't a tampon?" Hoffman asked her landlord, who had called to report that a pipe was now cleared at the home she shares with wife and reality TV star Gabby Windey. "I am not the one flushing tampons," Hoffman declared to host Juana Summers after the call wrapped, "for the record." With her heavy Brooklyn accent and a no-holds-barred approach to comedy, Hoffman seems to be everywhere these days – from scene-stealing roles in the Emmy-nominated shows like Hacks, to her most recent Netflix special, Wake Up. But she's also taken heat for some of her remarks, including lengthy jokes about the non-binary community and dismissing the use of they/them pronouns. "I like to cope and explore through jokes, and I feel like. I should be more able to do that than, say, some of my counterparts," Hoffman, 36, told NPR's Juana Summers in an interview for NPR's Newsmakers video podcast. "I feel like if I can't talk about it, who can?" Hoffman, who described herself as "somebody who's clearly in the queer space, who cut my tits off, who could be they/them at the drop of a hat," pushed back at critics who suggest that her jokes about the topic could be dangerous. "I think it's fair if they're mad about it. I also think it's fair for many of us to laugh at it. And I feel like I want to talk to the stuff that I know and experience day-to-day," she said. Including her day-to-day life, Hoffman's comedy draws on her upbringing. She made her way from a Hasidic community in Crown Heights – where she was one of ten siblings – to Montreal, where she eventually hit the stand-up circuit. Summers asked Hoffman about her first stand-up performance, which she described as "brutal." "I went to a club where I was living," Hoffman recounted. "I said 'Where is the best place to bomb?'" Though she only made it through a single minute of her five-minute set, Hoffman decided to keep trying. "It was good, even the one minute I did," she told Summers. From there, Hoffman went on to bigger venues across the U.S., eventually earning breakout roles on multiple Emmy-nominated shows. On top of Hacks, she's appeared in HBO's Rooster and Hulu's Dying for Sex. "I've never been the overnight sensation, overnight success," she said. "I've always been the slow and steady, just keep at it," she said, crediting much of her tenacity to her mother, who Hoffman says set an example by going back to school after moving the family to Canada as a single parent. "Rain or shine, she was there in the worst circumstances." Hoffman declined to share too many details about what's next in her career, explaining, "I don't like to jinx anything." But she was vocally grateful for her success, and didn't rule out a desire to helm a late night show, despite the recent political pressures on other hosts in that arena. "I'd be excellent," Hoffman said. "Call me." You can watch the full episode of NPR's Newsmakers by playing the video above, or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Can't see the video above? Click here. Audio transcript [MUSIC PLAYING] ROBBY HOFFMAN: I didn't know anything of PC. I didn't know where my line about hurting people or not was. But then later on, I've been able to look at that and also realize, like, it's offensive, and it also sucks to be poor. I just feel like as somebody who's clearly in the queer space, who cut my tits off, who could be they/them, drop of a hat, I like to cope and explore through jokes. And I feel like I should be more able to do that than some of my counterparts. I don't know. I feel like, if I can't talk about it, who can? STEVE INSKEEP: This is Newsmakers, NPR's biggest interviews. I'm Steve Inskeep. We question some of the most influential people of our time. New episodes drop whenever they're available. And the best way to stay caught up is to follow or subscribe to this show on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you watch or listen. You can also find us on the NPR app. Today, NPR's Juana Summers is your host. JUANA SUMMERS: Comedian Robby Hoffman has come a long way in her life, speaking of her truth to power and to fans on stage with roles in hit shows like Hacks, Rooster, and Dying for Sex. We talked about a lot of moments in her still-ascendant career, what she's worried about, and what she's not. Do you remember still your first time that you ever formally did standup? HOFFMAN: Yes. SUMMERS: Where was it? When was it? Tell us about it. HOFFMAN: It was very bad, brutal. It wasn't a formal setting. It was-- I went to a club in-- where I was living. I said, where's the best place to bomb? SUMMERS: The best place to bomb? HOFFMAN: Yeah, because I didn't even-- or where's-- I maybe didn't even know that word yet, but where's the best place to just not-- you know, to try this or something? And they said there was this-- there was this loft, this comedy loft, which sounded more professional than it was. It was some dude's apartment, is what it was. And it was a loft, a very-- what we would call a hard loft, OK? So-- SUMMERS: What do you mean by that? HOFFMAN: I don't know if it was legally livable, if there were facilities. I don't know. I don't know if there was a bathroom functioning or not, if it was a warehouse, what it was. This dude found himself here. That was the first place I got up. I went there. I thought at the time that everybody was, like, 1,000. They were, like, 30, 35. But I went with my friends. And we were kind of sheltered and kind of good-- I was kind of, like, a studious kid. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: And we went, and, you know, people were smoking. And again, smoking indoors was illegal. But this was just some dude's apartment. So we each took a shot. We sat there. It was very smoky. I got up. I was OK for, like, one minute, and then I felt dizzy, nauseous, nervous, all of it, from the cigarette, from the shot, from the nerves. You know, have you ever-- I used to-- when I was first getting my period, I would faint. SUMMERS: Yep. HOFFMAN: Have you ever had, like, where you're like-- you're like-- it's going, like, black, black, black, like, your eyes? SUMMERS: You're nauseous. HOFFMAN: And you're like, I have to sit. SUMMERS: It's just going. Yep. HOFFMAN: Yeah, you have to sit right away. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: That happened to me. SUMMERS: Oof. HOFFMAN: So I had that feeling once before with my-- so I was like, I have to sit down. I can't let myself fall. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: Like, that was a bad scene. So I sat down. Then my friends were like, let's go outside. Like, the smoke-- like, we were not adjusting well to this very grown-up, dennish loft. So we went outside. It was middle of winter, Canada. Great fresh air. And we came back up, and I was feeling good as new. So I went up to the host, Morgan O'Shea, at the time. And I said, hey, Morgan, like, can I-- I feel so much better. Like, I think I was just nervous, and the smoke. I'm going to get used to it, but can I finish? You know, I have four more. He's like, no. I said, why? I have-- I only did one minute of my time, and everybody gets five. I still have four. He's like, no, that's not how it works. Like, you just come back next week. And I kept going back, and it was great from that second week on. SUMMERS: What was it that made you keep coming back? Because I can imagine a lot of people only doing that one minute, not getting to finish the four. They don't come back to that stage. What brought you back? HOFFMAN: I just-- it was good, even the one minute I did. It was really a medical-- I removed myself for medical reasons. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: It's kind of like a boxer when the doctor comes in, and they take him out of the fight. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: They check the eyes. No, he can't fight anymore. It's not like he's not a great boxer. But there was a medical-- SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: You know? So that's the way I saw it early on. I, you know-- I don't know. I didn't think that-- I didn't, yeah, think to quit. SUMMERS: You've said that you think that sometimes people misinterpret a number of your jokes. And I wonder, especially at this point in your career, do you feel a responsibility for how audiences interpret the jokes that you make, the remarks that you make? HOFFMAN: No, I don't. I guess it bothers me that they interpret it, and it also doesn't bother me. I'm also, like, open to them-- like, because sometimes, I don't even want the jokes I have. But I just know about this stuff. Like, you know, I've talked about it before, but it's like, you know, I have a joke about pedophilia, you know, in my special on Netflix, Wake Up. Now, I wish I never knew about pedophilia. You know, the only reason I have a joke about it is because this is happening, and now, I have a thought about it. So I'm thinking about it. I don't want to think about these things. SUMMERS: Sure. HOFFMAN: So sometimes I don't even want-- you know what I mean? Sometimes I feel like I just have to not lie. Like, if I had the thought and I think it's funny, I'll do it. But it might not be something-- like, I'm not happy that I know about these topics, necessarily. You know, they're a way to cope with some of the topics that we know about. But I wouldn't-- so I'm always annoyed. My guttural reaction is, like, ugh, people misinterpret, but also, my guttural reaction is like, yeah, they're allowed to feel that, too. You know what I mean? So-- because I have the same thing watching different things. And sometimes something hits me personally. Or somebody says something about my people or who I am or whatever, and I have the instinct to take it personal. And I do take it personal, and that's fine, too. You can think-- you can take things personal, but you can-- and sometimes you'll laugh at stuff. Like, I allow myself-- I don't know. I allow myself to enjoy other bits of people, to really laugh, and also, to be like, I don't like that bit. I do the same thing, you know? Or like, oh, that personally offends me. I just allow myself to have all the experiences that I think other people have when they're, you know, watching me. So it bothers me, but I also get it. SUMMERS: For you, personally, though, are there any topics that are off the table? HOFFMAN: I don't know yet. [LAUGHS] I don't know. I feel like-- I couldn't name one, but I'm sure there are things that I'm just not naturally gravitated to. I mean, ostensibly speaking, there's comics who talk about all kinds of things I've probably never touched on, and vice versa. There's people-- there's-- I talk about stuff that a comic has never even been in this wheelhouse to talk about. So maybe we see things differently. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: We catch different things. So I'm sure there's so many topics. Some are probably not even controversial, just that I don't have material on, you know, where I don't talk about beach balls. I don't have anything on beach balls. SUMMERS: Sure, sure. HOFFMAN: You know what I mean? But I'm sure that somebody does. I wouldn't say it's off limits, beach balls, but I just-- nothing has-- it hasn't struck me. SUMMERS: But there's-- HOFFMAN: I'm sure there's somebody who's got a great bit about it. SUMMERS: But there's a difference between beach balls and pedophilia. I mean, that's something that we all think about or know about. HOFFMAN: No, I know. Yeah, I know. I know. I had to think about because it was right front and center. But I'm sure if you grow up in San Diego or on a beach, beach balls are a lot more, you know, maybe front and center. I live in a city, with news the way it is, you know? And beach balls is obviously a-- yes, a very far example, but I don't know what might be-- some people have business, you know, maybe or work as a-- they were a lawyer or something. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: And they know more financial crimes or something like that. I don't know what is off limits yet. I wouldn't say, you know, I'm-- I'm not like, nothing's off limits either, because there's lots of stuff I don't touch. I just-- I don't know what-- I couldn't give you the topics. SUMMERS: Yeah. Has there ever been a joke you've told that you realize in the moment, hey, this didn't land the way I wanted to? HOFFMAN: Oh, yeah. SUMMERS: OK. Give us an example. HOFFMAN: One of my early bits, my little sister was working at-- she worked at a Starbucks that was open till at least midnight. And my little sister, I was worried about her. She would take the subway-- the last subway home. Or she would walk home really late from-- you know, she would either walk from the shop, take the subway late. You know, it's really a rough walk, even if you have to take the subway, and it takes you a few blocks from your house. I would say those few blocks are a really sketchy few blocks. SUMMERS: Sure. HOFFMAN: So she would do things that would crack me up. They were heartbreaking at the time. She demonstrated to me-- and I don't even want to do it here. And it's so funny. I'm doing an ABA podcast after this. So this is a brutal story to share. But I must be honest. We're on the NPR. And it's not my best moment. And you're asking about it. But she walked home imitating a physical disability. But in my head, you do what you do to keep safe. And she would either mock or imitate-- also mock-- a physical disability to go home for those two blocks. Or she would make a crazy mental illness where she would have an umbrella, rain or shine. So I retold that. I rejigged that as a joke-- SUMMERS: OK. HOFFMAN: --walking home or whatever. And I wouldn't do that now. At the time, I didn't know anything of PC. I didn't know where my line about hurting people or not was, still figuring it out. But then later on, I've been able to look at that and also realize, like, it's offensive, and it also sucks to be poor. SUMMERS: Yeah, there's a-- HOFFMAN: Like, it sucks to have, like-- to think of, like, the weirdest things to be safe. But it's also offensive. Like, it was like meeting up like this. SUMMERS: How do you navigate that line, though, between what is offensive and what is funny? Because especially now, in today's-- HOFFMAN: Yeah. SUMMERS: --climate, that feels like something that would be really challenging for a comedian. HOFFMAN: It's somehow not for me. Like, things like that, OK, those were-- you know, I would-- I felt a way about it. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: I stopped doing it. I can't tell you that there's a science to it, but I felt a way to it. SUMMERS: Sticking on this a little bit, I mean, you life has changed in so many dramatic ways. It's not many-- HOFFMAN: By the grace of God. SUMMERS: --poverty to relative comfort, someone who is unknown to someone who is a household name in the closet-- HOFFMAN: Thank you. SUMMERS: --to being outed, very publicly single to very publicly married. HOFFMAN: Yeah. SUMMERS: Is there any one of those shifts and those changes that's changed you, challenged you the most? HOFFMAN: Just to keep at it. Like, you know, I don't think that there was one thing, but it was everything. You know, I have never-- I've never been the overnight sensation, overnight success. I've always been the slow and steady, just keep at it. I think a lot of that tenacity comes from a person like my mother, who, like, was, you know, put upon to have 10 kids. You know, whether she wanted us or not, I don't think was really a consideration and in the lifestyle my parents were living in, in a very religious lifestyle. And bringing us back to her native Canada and taking us alone and depending on whatever support she had, and my great uncle, my grandfather, and this sort of thing, but her just every day being there, you know, alone, basically. But another thing she did was, like, my grandfather would come over and say, like, to my mom, like, you know, you should do something for you, like, once a week. So she went back to school-- university. And she started taking a class once a week. And then 12 years later, my mother was graduating, like, by the great-- like, painstakingly, over 12 years, every semester through the summer, once a week, she just kept at it. SUMMERS: What did watching her do that and go through that teach you? HOFFMAN: I think that's a silent example. Like, my mother was not somebody to give us a talk. You know, if anything, she told us she didn't know anything. Let's say you had a boyfriend or something. She'd be like, I don't know nothing about-- you know, I don't know. I can't help you kids with that, you know? Or if you had a social problem at school, she'd be like, you know, I didn't grow up with many friends, so you're going to have to fight your own battles and look out for each other. You know, like, she just wasn't, like, emotionally available. But she was-- my little sis-- my other little sister says she's the definition of putting one foot in front of the other. She just subtly did. I don't even think it was intentional for her to be this example. But rain or shine, she was there in the worst circumstances, you know? And, yes, she had no choice. But she also kept at it. And I felt like once I discovered I'm doing this-- like, oh, I might be good at this-- I was like, oh, no, I really might have to do this. And it just felt like a long slog. And it was. And it's been. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: But it's-- I don't know. You find yourself in the slog, and I just kept at it. I just kept at it. SUMMERS: What's your relationship with money like today, as someone who came from that background and is now incredibly successful? HOFFMAN: I mean, it's complicated, always. I love money. I'm very driven by money. I feel like I'm at the-- I became a victim of, like, you know, growing up, growing up, growing up, all you wanted, money, money. They put it to us. Like, things are good, and cars and money and jewelry and all this stuff. And I'm like, you got me. I like it. [LAUGHS] I'm like, the sales pitch-- it worked. The marketing worked on me. From such a little kid, I was taught to glorify, whether on purpose or not, just in society, the glorification of material and money and the need for it, too. Not only did I glorify it, but when you're lacking, you also need it first before you can even want it. SUMMERS: Before you can aspire to what-- HOFFMAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. SUMMERS: --all the other things. Yeah, yeah. HOFFMAN: So now, I'm, like, big, and I'm like, love it. I'm like, it's as good as I thought it would be and better. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, sold. Like, so I feel both those things. I feel like I really enjoy it a lot. I'm nervous to lose it. I still have-- like, I'm extremely worried about money still. SUMMERS: Even at this point in your career? HOFFMAN: Very. I'm always worried because life, you know, it can-- it starts to cost a little more, right? Then, you know-- then it's like, I want to help-- you know, I want to share it a little bit more. So those feel-- not that they're responsibilities, but they're joys, like, for me to, you know, be in a position, whether, you know, we're sharing with my family. And my family is so helpful to each in other ways, too. People take people in when they need a spot, or whatever. So it's just managing it at that level and being like, do I have the skill set, like, to-- you know, you hear horror stories. Like, I want to be good with it. I want to enjoy it. I want to be giving with it. I want to do all the things and without, like-- it could be taken away at any time, which has happened to me many, many times when you're poor. You know, you're on your last $100 a lot. And you think, you know-- so it becomes that. SUMMERS: Yeah. So, Robby, I want to ask you about something that happened a while ago. It was back in 2023, and this was at that Writers' Guild of America meeting. HOFFMAN: Ah. SUMMERS: And at the time, you described it as traumatizing. So I wonder if you could just, like, tell us what happened. And then I want to follow up. HOFFMAN: The problem for me, largely, is that many of the systems that we have faith in were created by systems that did not deserve our faith, OK? Initially started with very good intentions for writers to have, you know-- and I think they do a lot of that. But what I'm skeptical of is when-- is-- is people-- it getting corrupted, just like we've seen every other system. The more I learned about the world, the more I learned that, oh, my god, so many things that should be aren't. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: I don't know. I was a new-- SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: --writer to the-- to Writers' Guild. I'm paying these dues, 1.5% on everything. I have a little experience from my stint as an accountant. And I decided to, like, get involved with the guild. They were like, you're paying 1.5%? I was like, OK, this is my organization. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: This is good. They had a Q&A. I had some questions. So I printed their statements. I had some questions. And I wanted to know about the guild salaries. There were, like, six or seven people sat on this board. And they had million-dollar salaries. And in my head, it didn't, like, clock because I'm like, isn't it a non-for-profit? Why-- SUMMERS: Sure. HOFFMAN: Isn't it a volunteer position? I get that there's some work, but why are they making millions when we're, like, now striking? Like, and then I looked more and more into it. So that was one question I had-- shut down. Now, I could be wrong. I could be-- but tell me. Like, it was just crazy that I was-- you need to sit down. Like, I had a genuine question. I had a question about why they owned so many real estate buildings for writers. You're not working on your laptop in your apartment like me? Where-- I was, like, confused where they're working. Like, I'm like, what's in the buildings? Like, I have a lot of paranoia. I have a lot of skepticism. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: And that's because of the world that I grew up in. There are a lot of things aren't what they say they are. SUMMERS: What was the reaction when you started kind of peppering them with these questions about-- HOFFMAN: Oh, my god. SUMMERS: --these things that you'd observed? HOFFMAN: How dare you question our supreme leader? And he's, like, a white rich dude. And he's like, you need to sit down, like, as if I'm a child when we're all grown ups there. And he's, like, scolding me, like, you need to sit down. Of course, I started crying inside. It's very intimidating when somebody-- SUMMERS: Sure. HOFFMAN: --is like, you need to sit down, you know, and, like, scolding you and punishing you kind of publicly, because I really cared about the writers. I wanted to know where our money was going. And I could be wrong. You could say, oh, the building is this or this. You could answer the question. And I really was concerned for us, the writers. SUMMERS: What was the reaction of the writers? HOFFMAN: So they start-- and when he said, you need to sit down, they start booing. They agree with him right away, without questioning. Group thought-- we're going to sit down. My friend, Carmen-- God bless-- was like, we need to get out of here. He gets me out of there. You know, I wish I had the kind of language that would have spoke to the room at the time. We got so wrapped up in stuff. I wish I would have said something like, you know, so you need, you know, a room that would have-- and maybe your NPR audience could appreciate this, but, you know, a room of very, you know, I think, self-described progressives, a room, you know, that I felt comfortable in. I wish I would have said something like, so you mean to tell me-- you know, when after you're, like, crying or whatever, I should have said this, I should have said that and all of those-- SUMMERS: Hindsight's 20/20, yeah. HOFFMAN: --you know? What I should have said! And I was like-- you know, I should have said, you mean to tell me a rich, cis, white, straight man is telling a young, queer girl to sit down when she's got a question? But I didn't have the wherewithal for all those identities. You know what I mean? But maybe I could have hit him with that. But bottom line, everybody booed. And my final question about it was that we were striking. SUMMERS: Right. HOFFMAN: And I thought striking was a last line of defense, OK? And our last defense is ourselves. We throw ourselves to the fight. And I felt like the guild at the time-- like, I hadn't heard us in court, right? In my head, the guild was against huge studios who tell us they're sharks. You know, I'm sure that Sony and these studios have the greatest Stanford-educated lawyers. So I'm thinking, why aren't we taking all the money that we're taking from the guild-- instead of giving it to these guys, why don't we buy-- SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: --the best Stanford Law lawyers that ever were and fight? Like, it felt like we were showing up with, like, writers and going up against studio lawyers. It was, like, bringing a knife to a gunfight. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: So that's it. I asked if we could exhaust all litigious efforts-- SUMMERS: Right. HOFFMAN: --before we were striking. I was shut down. I was booed. Months later-- and as is the case with many Robby Hoffman stories-- many people started circling back. So for months, I'm moping around. SUMMERS: Well, this is what I want to ask you about, right? HOFFMAN: Yeah. SUMMERS: Because you seem to be a person who, at least outwardly, doesn't internalize a lot of the criticism that you get publicly, a lot of rejection. And in this moment, this seemed to be something-- HOFFMAN: Oh, brutal. SUMMERS: --that was brutal, something-- HOFFMAN: Oh, my god. SUMMERS: --that stuck with you. And I wonder, is that an outlier? Or is that something that happens often? HOFFMAN: [SIGHS] That was an outlier. That was, like, a big thing because, yeah, those meetings don't really happen a lot. And I feel like the people are always with me, and I'm often, like, with the people. Like, I'm at the comedy store-- SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: --or stuff like that. I'm never with, like, the industry like that or powerful people. That was one of my first experiences, like, to power that I'm like, oh, I'm going to ask a question to people who, like, sit on a board. You know, normally, I'm out with everybody-- SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: --probably listening to this. And we kind of speak a more similar language. So I don't know that it's-- that seemed a bit like an out. That was a very scary time. But of course, it came around, people in the DMs like, hey, you were talking about this. That does seem weird to me. Where did you find that information? I'd be like, it's right on the website. Here are the statements. And as the strike went on and on, people started questioning what I had early questioned, what are we doing? And I would say, it's-- it's hard to be right early. And it's-- SUMMERS: It's hard to be right early. HOFFMAN: And it's hard to question things and possibly be wrong. Like, there's not room for questioning. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: Like, I'm open that I'm still wrong on many things I just said, but I'm not-- like, it's not the worst thing to be wrong. I'm not an expert. I just have questions. SUMMERS: Right. HOFFMAN: And yeah, so-- SUMMERS: You have noted elsewhere how different identities and communities have claimed you-- Jewish, the LGBTQ community, women, New Yorkers, Canadians. Do you feel a responsibility in how you represent any particular identity? HOFFMAN: No. I just feel like I have to be me. When I look at myself as-- when I look at the purpose of my life or whatever-- and again, I use God broadly. It could be the universe. It could be whatever is greater than us. I feel like I was given one little person. And I-- it's my responsibility to figure out this person and to get this person to be the best version that it could be. I take it very seriously. I always look back at the little kid in me, who's, you know, got roaches and is really impatient and wants to get out of here. And how are we going to figure out money? And how are we going to figure it out? And I go like, Lil Rob, I'm trying there. Hey, Lil Rob, I see you. You gotta trust me. I am getting us there as fast as humanly possible. You don't know what I'm dealing with out here. You don't know the systems and the rich and the nepos and the everything. It is crazy. You would never understand. You're too young to understand right now. But I'm trying to get you there. And I feel like every year, every day, I'm trying to be more me-- SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: --and think less about how I'm being, how I'm sitting, how I'm talking. I just try and, like, just relax a little-- SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: --into me. SUMMERS: I do want to ask you about one specific piece of criticism. HOFFMAN: Yeah. SUMMERS: Despite your own queer identity, you've been criticized for using remarks that joke about people who use non-binary they/them-- HOFFMAN: Right. SUMMERS: --pronouns. And for some of those critics, when I see the discourse, it's not that they're just offended. Some people say they feel like those kinds of comments are dangerous. Do you see it that way? HOFFMAN: Well, I have a different definition of dangerous. I consider dangerous like violence. But I think, yeah, they could be dangerous. And maybe there is a more-- a philosophical interpretation of dangerous. So maybe I'm open to that. I just feel like as somebody who's clearly in that space-- SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: --in the queer space, who cut my tits off, who could be they/them drop of a hat, I should be able to-- I like to cope and explore through jokes. And I feel like I should be more able to do that than, say, some of my counterparts. And shout out, you know, to Joe Rogan and people who-- it's no dig, you know, but lots of people who talk about it and have no experience what it is to, you know, be whatever the hell I am. [LAUGHS] So I don't know. I feel like if I can't talk about it, who can? Like, it's totally within my milieu to speak on those things and to joke about them. And for me, it's a cope. If you're offended by it, then that's your experience of it, too. You're-- you know, I think that's fine, too. You're allowed to be you. I'm allowed to be me. You could say what you want. I could say what I want. When people go, oh, she says this, I encourage-- so go. If you want to say something, say something. I think go work 15, 20 years. Keep at it. Get on to this stage and say whatever the hell you want to say. You know, I-- so I don't-- I think it's fair if they're mad about it. I also think it's fair for many of us who laugh at it. And I feel like I want to talk to the stuff that I know and experience day to day. SUMMERS: I mean, Robby, your life has changed so much since you were growing up in that Hasidic community, living in Crown Heights. I wonder-- we've been talking about little Rob a little bit. What do you-- HOFFMAN: Oh. SUMMERS: --think that younger self would say if little Rob, the younger version of you, could see who you are today? HOFFMAN: [SIGHS] We were so happy. Honestly, that question could make me cry. I-- we're so grateful. By the grace of God and all of you, everybody who's-- this has been a tremendous group effort. I take it seriously that you guys have propped me. That, I do. And I'm so excited. I think that when-- just your prior question about me getting in trouble with this, I'm also the same me. That was the same me in third grade. You know, peers get in trouble because I said something that I shouldn't say. And you know what, baby? We've monetized it. It's not a bad thing. I say things. That's what I do. And I've refined it. And we actually are not getting in trouble as much for it anymore. And we're, like, being embraced for who we are. I'm the grown-up version of the kid. I'm, like, exactly who you would have thought. So, you know, I'm so comfortable. Like, when you're asking me about the event, like, this has been my whole life, like the principal and then this. And you got to raise your hand to talk. Now, I don't have to raise my hand to talk. I am called on stage. It is just me talking, OK? And it's like the-- it's like-- so I don't know. I've been getting in trouble my whole life. I'm very comfortable getting in trouble. It's never my intention. I think people come around to me. I've seen this cycle a lot. And it's happening just on a larger scale. And I'm so, so grateful. It honestly makes me cry. I wasn't sure that we would get here, but I had a feeling. I did have a feeling. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: But I had a small feeling I wasn't-- oh. [PHONE RINGING] HOFFMAN: Sorry, sorry, sorry. OK, my landlord. You know, let me pick up because what if it is something crazy? Hello? SPEAKER: Hello. HOFFMAN: Hi. SPEAKER: You can go ahead and flush and go ahead-- HOFFMAN: Oh. SPEAKER: --turn your shower on for a bit. HOFFMAN: Well, I'm not home now. I'm doing something. SPEAKER: Is Robby home? HOFFMAN: Well, it's me. It's Robby. You want to go in and turn on the shower and see if the toilet works? SPEAKER: I'm sure it does. I found where the problem was. HOFFMAN: OK. SPEAKER: I found, like, a mouse-sized hairball. HOFFMAN: OK, so it wasn't a tampon? SPEAKER: Well, there was a tampon in the line-- HOFFMAN: Yeah, right. SPEAKER: --when we pulled that out. HOFFMAN: All right, well, I'm sorry about that. OK, well, thank you for fixing it. I'll report back when I'm home in a bit, OK? SPEAKER: Yeah, go ahead and-- or just call me tonight and tell me everything worked fine-- HOFFMAN: OK. SPEAKER: --when you take a shower. I assume you shower at night. I don't know. HOFFMAN: No, I'll shower in the morning, but my wife might shower tonight. We'll report back. Thank you. SPEAKER: OK, very good. HOFFMAN: OK, thanks, Lauren. Bye. SPEAKER: Bye. SUMMERS: It's important information to have. HOFFMAN: Yeah, no. Because you know what? We can't do number two in the bathroom right now. But now we can, it seems. And I am not the one flushing tampons for the record-- for the record. SUMMERS: Great clarify. HOFFMAN: For the record. SUMMERS: OK. Last thing, Robby. I just wonder, what is something about yourself today, your current identity, that you're still trying to unpack and understand? HOFFMAN: Nothing. I don't know. I'm just trying to-- I'm not trying it. I just-- like, I'm just allowing myself to be freer and freer, if I can, you know, within reason. I don't-- you know. But yeah, I know it-- but it's not-- yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there's one thing that I'm trying-- maybe more body positivity. Maybe, you know, I think-- like, I don't love my teeth-- trying to be accepting of that or, you know, like, things that like, oh, when I was a kid, I wanted braces because, you know, kids got to fix their teeth. My teeth weren't that bad, you know, thank god. But I never did get braces. And now, I'm, like, at an age where I'm like, should I just do it? SUMMERS: You could. HOFFMAN: But then I'm going to be braces growing up. Like, it's like, you see it. It never leaves you. Like, it creates a problem, even here. Now, I got to be the person that's like, oh, we-- she obviously came into money. Like, you know when somebody came into some money where they had the braces that-- you know, so I don't know. I don't know. There's things like that. But on a larger scale, I don't know. I couldn't list you something. [MUSIC PLAYING] SUMMERS: There's been a lot of conversation about the culture of comedy right now. And I've heard some of your peers talk about the fact that they don't feel as free, that they feel concerned about what they can say or what they can't say and the consequences of that. You've talked about feeling freer. I wonder, do you take on any of that concern or that baggage that some of your colleagues are expressing? HOFFMAN: No, I don't know. I mean, if they feel that, they feel that. They must-- you know. I feel like you could say anything, but you're also at the, like-- so could other people. So it's like, well, if you're talking about, like, oh, Chappelle or this older, like, guard of comedy-- you can't say anything anymore, you know? Bro, you just did. But other people had a reaction to it. SUMMERS: Yeah. HOFFMAN: You did start saying it. You can't say anything. But you're saying it, and you're seeing-- but other-- it's like when somebody-- when I say a joke, some people are offended by it. That also can happen. I just-- yeah, I don't-- I think you can say anything, but people can also say anything. SUMMERS: I mean, there's been, obviously, some political consequences for some comedians in our current climate coming from the Trump administration. HOFFMAN: Oh, I hate that. That's, like, ridiculous. That's like-- no, I think that's awful. I also think Jimmy Kimmel works for a company, a corporation. So I think that he hasn't been free probably since he started his show. You know, I don't know the ins and outs of that, like, you know-- that sort of network late night-- SUMMERS: Would you ever host a network late night show? HOFFMAN: I would love to! I'd be excellent at it. I'd be excellent. Call me. You know, I can't say that they wouldn't pull me from the air, and I would do better with the company than he did. You know, I really can't. You know, I'm incapable of reading a teleprompter. You know, A, my vision, and B, I just-- I go off. I'm not-- you know, but if there's a space that allows me to just-- you know. I would say, record me, and leave room for edits. I would say that if you're going to hire me, like, it's at your own risk, OK? I'm not always thinking about what I'm saying. I'm trying to learn that since a kid. I've been told my whole life, think before you speak. I'm trying more. I can't guarantee that I can get there. I got to be honest with you. I don't always think before I speak. Many times, I do, and many times, I don't. SUMMERS: What's next-- what have-- you've had so much success. What's next for you? HOFFMAN: We have so much. I can't talk about it. I don't like to jinx anything. I don't like to talk about everything. But guys, stick with me. And the people who were with me from the beginning, I also want to say this. Some people-- and I love that you were here from the beginning. But embrace the new people here. Show them around. Don't say, oh, I was here first. This is mine. Show them around. Welcome to Robby Hoffman. Have you seen this, that? Like, show them around. Let's be hospitable. If you've been here from day one, if you've been here from five years, from 10 years, from 15 years, thank you. And if you're just joining us now, welcome aboard. INSKEEP: Robby Hoffman, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. HOFFMAN: Oh. Thank you guys so much. [MUSIC PLAYING] INSKEEP: The news does not keep a schedule, and neither do we. New episodes of Newsmakers publish as soon as they're available any day of the week. The best way to stay caught up is to follow or subscribe to this show on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you watch or listen. You can also find us on the NPR app. Newsmakers relies on supporters who value independent journalism and the free press. You can join NPR+ today to support our work and get perks from the podcasts you trust. So just go to plus.npr.org. I'm Steve Inskeep. Thanks for listening to NPR's Newsmakers. [MUSIC PLAYING]