Эксперт по финансовому планированию объясняет, как избежать ловушки сравнения и использовать деньги для реализации библейского призвания

Rob West: Bob Goff once said, "We won't be distracted by comparison if we're captivated by purpose." Hi, I'm Rob West. Comparison tempts us to measure our success against someone else's life, but when we understand who we are in Christ and why God has entrusted us with resources, money becomes a tool for our purpose rather than a scorecard. Jim Rasmussen joins us today to help us escape the comparison trap. And we have lots of great listener questions ahead, but we won't be taking your live calls today because this program is pre-recorded. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. Joining us today is my friend Jim Rasmussen, co-founder and brand ambassador at Pando Wealth and a Certified Kingdom Advisor. Jim brings a valuable perspective on helping individuals and families approach financial decisions with both wisdom and purpose. Jim, great to have you here. Jim Rasmussen: Oh, it's great to be here, Rob. Rob West: Jim, you've coached hundreds of Chick-fil-A operators, and I know that's been a specialty of your business, although Pando Wealth is expanding and serving a lot more folks now. But what have you learned about where comparison tends to take root in a leader's life specifically? Jim Rasmussen: Well, working with all of the families that we serve across the country, I've seen that this is a problem that is happening everywhere. And in my experience, the comparison usually starts in that business world, where we think about sales, and then we start to compare a little bit more about the individual line items to feel good about, "Well, I might have done better with food or labor, etc." But it's really about the bottom line profits: how can we make more? And so that's where it just kind of starts to take root, and then it goes to the personal side. Rob West: Well, that's right. Comparison can affect anyone. But Jim, what makes high earners especially vulnerable to this trap? Jim Rasmussen: What I see is our culture seems to reward or encourage that net worth is equal to your self-worth. And when I look at a lot of these business owners, they're taught really well how to run a business, but the whole purpose of a business is to actually fuel your financial plan. And then your financial plan is to fuel your life plan. And how many of us or them are actually sitting there thinking about their life plan? Which then, if you have no financial plan, you have all this cash, you start to just look around and go, "Well, maybe I should copy what other people are doing because they're smarter and further ahead than me." Rob West: Mm, yeah. And so we get caught in—I know you've talked about this loop that we have, where, you know, instead of it being around, "How do I beat next month?", it really should be about, "What is God calling me to, and how can my finances be in service to that?", right? Jim Rasmussen: Absolutely. Rob West: Yeah. First Peter 4:10 calls us to use whatever God has entrusted to us to serve others as faithful stewards of His grace. Jim, how does that idea shift our focus from comparison to stewardship? Jim Rasmussen: Well, what you start to see is every resource is a gift. And it's here to serve; it's not here to actually be a trophy that you put on display for everybody else. You are literally trying to be the vessel that God's using to reach other people, and when you can do that, you start to think about not how much can I give, but how much do I keep? And that allows you to start thinking about, "Well, who can I bless with this? How can I have an impact for the kingdom in this way?" Rob West: Mm, yeah. And so it quickly becomes about generosity, holding what we have loosely, giving it generously. You know, how does that shift begin to occur in someone's mindset as they think about their role as stewards, not owners? Jim Rasmussen: A lot of people go from believing that, "I deserve this," or, "I've waited a long time, and so I can control what I've got because I've earned it." And all of a sudden, you start to release some of those assumptions and beliefs that you've grown up with. And so you start to hear how your kids or family might say, "Hey, everyone has one. Why can't I? Why can't we go on a nice vacation?" All of a sudden, it becomes, "We're doing things differently. We're following our life plan of what God's called us to." And that's a gift that each of us have uniquely and individually. Rob West: Yeah, it sure is. Jim, do you encourage your clients to really think about a lifestyle cap or a finish line as you're working with them? Jim Rasmussen: We try to ask them what their finish line is and how much is going to be enough, but then we start to also ask, "Okay, there's only really three questions: How much do you need? How much do the kids need? And then what does God want me to do with the rest?" Rob West: Mm. What about that question, "How much do I need?" Because it would be great if God's Word said, "You should live on 62.4% of your income." It doesn't, which means it's between us and the Lord. How do you encourage people to go through that process to figure it out? Jim Rasmussen: What we typically want to try to do is say, "Seek God first." Ultimately, that's the issue. Rob West: Well, it's a matter of prayer and discernment, and if you're married, you need to do that together. Jim Rasmussen's here today. We're talking about comparison and the trap of having more and striving for more and missing God's best for our financial lives. We'll continue to unpack this and what it looks like for you, and me, and Jim right around the corner. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Back with much more right after this. Stick around. 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OneAscent believes that your values inspire why you invest and how they can inspire how you invest. OneAscent's goal is to provide solutions designed for every need and invest in businesses that bless the people and places God has made. They want to help investors do well by doing good. To explore a new way of investing that aligns with your values, more information is available at oneascent.com/faithfi. Announcer: Rising health insurance rates are pricing millions out of the market, and Christian Healthcare Ministries is here to help. CHM is affordable assurance, allowing believers to share the burden of medical bills together. You get simple, low-cost pricing regardless of health history or location. Plus, you can enroll at any time with no contracts. Break free from the huge costs and hidden fees of traditional health insurance. Learn more at faithfi.com/chm. Rob West: The cure for comparison isn't having more. It's remembering who you are in Christ and why God entrusted you with what you have. We're talking the comparison trap with my friend Jim Rasmussen today. He's co-founder and brand ambassador at Pando Wealth and a Certified Kingdom Advisor. Jim, you've seen identity shift from "I am in Christ" to "I am the person who has achieved or acquired this." What early warning sign reveals that our identity is beginning to drift? Jim Rasmussen: Typically, if we start talking with others, and we start to name material things that we have: "Oh, I just bought a lake house," "Oh, I have a nice car," "Oh, I got new clothes," "Oh, I went on a nice trip." We start to talk about material things versus what is God doing in our lives. Rob West: Yeah. Boy, that's a a common trap that we can all get into. You know, some listeners may wonder, isn't it wise to learn from someone else's investment strategy? So, you know, as we think about our own investments, what can go wrong when we simply copy someone else's portfolio, for example? Jim Rasmussen: It can seem like a good idea at first because others seem to be further ahead or going where it looks flashy and exciting. But what we need is permission to actually go where God's called us. And if we're driving from Atlanta to New York, we need to go on 85 North. If we copy somebody else's driving habits and they're going west on I-20 or south on 85, we're not going to get to where God's leading us. And so to me is you can miss somebody's time horizon mismatch. You can figure out that you might actually be riskier than you should be, and so you're going to have more anxiety because your portfolio changes a lot. There's a lot of unintended consequences that happen when you start to just copy or follow the crowd. Rob West: How does your prayer life play into this idea of contentment, Jim? Jim Rasmussen: Well, you all of a sudden see that when you're looking at your finances, prayers move more from, "Hey, I am thankful, I'm grateful for what I have," and you start looking at, "Hey, I might want this nicer house, this nicer car." So you can see that the shift, when you start to think with gratitude and following what God has for your plan, you'll see a shift in your prayers that focus from inward to more outward: "How can I be helpful with others and serve others with what I have and what I do?" Rob West: Yeah. You know, I think taking that inventory, perhaps a a gratitude journal of sorts where, you know, I know for a season in my life, I finished every day just writing down one or two things I was grateful for, and the shift that happens when you acknowledge that and see God's faithfulness and provision in your life can be a game changer. Have you ever experienced that? Jim Rasmussen: I haven't sat down and journaled as much, but what I've started doing is more prayer life. And one of the things that has made a big impact on me is just praying Psalms 139:23–24. That one says, "Search me, O God, know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way to everlasting." Rob West: Mm, wow. Jim Rasmussen: To me, that is where you have to pay attention to the tension, and then God will surface things that have brought you closer to the comparison trap that you need to address and remove, so that you can move more towards the generosity and gratitude mindset that will then produce fruit of the Holy Spirit. Rob West: That's well said. I know you often in your work with your clients give families permission to act on what God may be leading them to do. Now, I know that may be supporting a ministry project, maybe it's taking a family trip they've postponed out of guilt. What changes when they finally embrace that freedom? Jim Rasmussen: You can hear an audible sigh of relief. You can see their shoulders drop if you're on Zoom. You really can just see a weight lifted, and they no longer are sitting there thinking, "Oh, I wish I could." They know they can. So it's just a long dream will get booked for a vacation that they've been wanting to do. I just had one recently last week that saw the statistics of 98% success drop to 93% success, and he says, "Is that a big deal?" And I'm going, "Go be generous, because we want you to be generous." So it was just he said, "Thank you, because I really want to grow the kingdom of God," and it was just an impact that we get to say yes to. Rob West: That's powerful. Let's press into that a bit more, because I know at the heart of so many of these planning decisions and giving decisions is this idea of "Will I have enough?" And you encourage people to think, "Will what I have last long enough?" What's the difference between those two ideas? Jim Rasmussen: Some of those just goes from the accumulation to more of a distribution. It's really thinking, "Okay, God has been here, and when we're trying to say how much is enough," they're trying to plan every single accident or thing that could happen in their life, downfall, which means they ultimately plan God out of their lives. And that to me is concerning because God can't show up if you've planned everything out for Him. So we want to kind of see where's the responsible piece of that, and asking, "Will it last long enough for what you're doing?" helps them stop chasing more, more, more. Rob West: Mm, that's good. As we look to God's Word, and we talk about this comparison trap, Jesus' command in Matthew 6:33 is to seek God's kingdom first. How does that help us break free from this cycle of comparison? Jim Rasmussen: When you start to seek God first, you start to realize that you have a life plan. Earlier, I said we don't have one, but you do. And when you have that, you then know the financial plan is to help you accomplish it, you get to say no faster to the things that you're being bombarded with. That means your purpose comes before your purchase. That means your contentment is going to cool any kind of impulse buys that are coming your way. You're going to start to see an eternal return on your investment. Um, you're going to start to think more generosity and gratitude because you can say no to things faster when you know you're on purpose. Rob West: Yeah. Do you find that that's a struggle for people to really dial into their purpose? Jim Rasmussen: It is very hard, because we have to sit still and talk with God. And in this world, we are to go, go, go, constantly bombarded by emails and pictures on social media, and we get into this, "Well, gosh, I should be doing all that." Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So then, what is one practical step listeners can take this week to to do what you're saying, which is to realign their hearts and their finances with God's priorities? Jim Rasmussen: A couple of things that I was thinking of is first, go back to praying and reading Psalms 139:23–24. "Search me, O God." You could also just have an honest conversation with your spouse if you're married, or a close friend, and ask, "What do you see in my life that I'm too close to it to see? Would you help me just become a better steward of what I have?" Rob West: Mm. What about counteracting FOMO, the fear of missing out? Any thoughts there? Jim Rasmussen: Well, a lot of thing is is that every person is thinking about themselves. They're not thinking about you. And so to me is giving you permission to say, you're not missing out on anything. Seek God first, and He will remove that fear faster than anything. Rob West: Yeah. Obviously, you're a Certified Kingdom Advisor, Jim, and I'd love for you just to speak from your perspective to the role of a CKA as you come alongside your clients to both give them permission, challenge them where appropriate, and even provide accountability when you're invited into that. Jim Rasmussen: Oh, absolutely. The best thing is is that we get to come back and we understand that we're all here for an eternal perspective. When you have a long-term perspective, you make a better decision today. And we want to be that trusted advisor, just like every Certified Kingdom Advisor, that you can realize it's not about the money. It's not about anything except you seeking God's purpose in your life, and then helping you steward that in a way that helps you accomplish it. So having somebody that's not there to sell you or convince you to just give them money and talk to you later, having a relationship versus a transaction is vital. Rob West: Ah, so good. Well, Jim, this has been really rich. I'll tell you, this whole idea of the comparison trap, especially now with social media, is just so rampant. And really at the end of the day, it's an issue of the heart so much more than the money. You've given us so many things to think about today. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for stopping by. Jim Rasmussen: Thank you, Rob. Rob West: Folks, the cure for comparison isn't having more. It's remembering who you are in Christ and faithfully stewarding what God has entrusted to you. If you want to learn more about Pando Wealth, go to pandowealth.com. That's pandowealth.com. If you'd like to find a Certified Kingdom Advisor like Jim in your area, go to findacka.com. We'll be right back. Announcer: If we lose this culture war, we're going to have a hedonistic, humanistic society. Discover the story of the culture warrior, Don Wildmon, and how he went head-to-head with Hollywood, Playboy, the homosexual agenda, and the Disney empire. 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One important way you can join us in the battle is through a charitable gift annuity with the AFA Foundation. The charitable gift annuity benefits you, and it benefits the culture-transforming work of American Family Association. Phone 800-326-4543, extension 345. Announcer: We are grateful for support from Movement Mortgage, who provides residential home loans and reverse mortgage options in all 50 states. Guided by a mission to love and value people, Movement seeks to help individuals and families make informed financial decisions, from buying a home to planning for retirement. More information is available at faithfi.com/movement. Movement Mortgage, LLC supports equal housing opportunity. NMLS number 39179. For licensing information, visit nmlsconsumeraccess.org Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Hey, don't call in today, our team is away from the studio, but we did line up some questions that we will get to, and I'm confident you will enjoy them. You know, we hear from so many of you that tell us that God is at work through this ministry in your life, and we're so grateful. If you want to support our work here at Faith & Finance, the easiest way to do that is for you to become a FaithFi Partner. Just head to faithfi.com and click "Give" and as a way of encouraging you in your stewardship journey, we'll send you all kinds of resources every quarter. Just go to faithfi.com/give. Let's go to Palm Bay, Florida. Anne, go right ahead. Anne: Good afternoon, Rob. Thank you for taking my call. I've been trying to get on for a while. Okay. Rob West: Oh, I'm so glad you got through. Anne: Thank you. This is my story. My husband purchased a piece of land about 21-22 years ago. He has since passed, and it was in both our names. Before he passed, he took his name off, and my name is left. Now, I have been getting a lot of offers for this land, and when I checked on property appraiser, it said that I paid zero for it. And I know I paid—we paid $30,000. I don't know what he did when he took off his name, but then I've been getting offers for about $145,000 for this piece of land that we purchased for $30,000. I would just like to know how would the capital gains play into this sale? Rob West: Yeah. How much do you think you'll have in profit from the sale? Anne: Well, we paid $30,000, and they're offering $145,000 to $150,000. Rob West: Got it. Okay. Yeah, so you would likely be in—this would be a long-term capital gain, and the long-term capital gains rates currently, if you were to sell this in 2026, would be anywhere from 0% to 20%. For most taxpayers with a lower taxable income, it would be 0%. Once you get above $90,000—and that includes the gain itself plus your other taxable income, which is where you would likely be—it would put you in a 15% capital gains bracket, and it doesn't go to 20% until you get up above a half a million dollars. So you would be in that 15%, so if you got an offer, let's say you sold it for $145,000 minus your original cost basis of $30,000, you'd have $115,000 worth of gain, and then 15% of that is around $17,000. Now, those are rough numbers, you'd have to work with your CPA. And don't worry about that form that showed you the 0% capital gain because the cost basis is reported by you on the tax return when the property is sold. So there's an IRS form where you'd enter the date you acquired it, the date you sold it, the sales proceeds, and the cost basis, which is what you paid for it, and then adjusted for any other money you put in to improve the property, and then any selling expenses, things like that. And all that would go—would flow down to Schedule D, which would calculate your taxable gain or loss, and then, like I said, you would likely be at the 15% rate, which would be about $17,000 in total capital gains paid. Does that make sense? Anne: Yes, it does. It does. Thank you very, very much. Thank you very much. I do enjoy your program. Rob West: Well, thank you, Anne. I appreciate your call today. Lord bless you. Let's go to Ramon in Winter Haven. How can I help? Ramon: Yes, I have a family issue. My mother who died left my sister a house in Puerto Rico. The bills and everything that got paid into it was in other people's names, and I'm wondering—she's got the house, my mom didn't get to put the name there. I'm wondering in Puerto Rico, what is the form that you—because my sister's been living there for like a year—what is the form of getting a deed or getting the ownership of the house notarized for my sister or something like that? Rob West: Yeah. And where is the property located, Ramon? Ramon: It's Lares, L-A-R-E-S, Puerto Rico. Rob West: Okay, so the property is in Puerto Rico, and that's where your sister and your mom—your mom who passed away—lived? Ramon: Yeah, my mom who passed away lived there, but then gave it to her. She asked me if I wanted it anyway, I said no, leave it to my sister. So— Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, the challenge is because the property is in Puerto Rico, the answer depends on Puerto Rican law, not the law of the state where you live, certainly. I mean, the general principles are if your mom had a valid will that left the home to your sister, that would go through the legal process in Puerto Rico so the property could be transferred into her name. If there's no will, the estate would likely go through Puerto Rico's intestacy process, similar to the U.S., where the property would be distributed according to inheritance laws. It may not automatically go to the sister in that case. And even if everyone in the family agrees that mom intended for your sister to receive the home, the intent alone is not generally enough to transfer the legal title. The proper legal process would have to be followed. But at the end of the day, you need to contact a Puerto Rico probate attorney or a notary experienced in Puerto Rico estate law to kind of walk you through the process. I would not be able to tell you how that would work. Ramon: Right. And it's kind of hard because back in the old days, the parents, you know, they were kind of slow to do things. And back in the old day, a little bit, you know, not smart enough like today's generation, but, you know, we love them, they helped us grow up. But, you know, they didn't do these little things like having a notary saying that this belongs to my sister to take it to the Puerto Rican county and file it and everything. Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. No, I certainly understand that. I'm sure they passed on a lot that was really valuable to you all, but maybe they were not as skilled in this area of having their estate in order and financial management. Nevertheless, I think the key here is, given where we find ourselves, there's going to be a process for intestacy in Puerto Rico, just like there is here, where there's not a valid will. The estate—the probate courts would likely be the ones, according to Puerto Rican law, to tell you exactly how this needs to transfer given the absence of a valid will. And however that plays out, if there's agreement, it could ultimately get to the hands of your sister, who I suspect is still living there. But that's all going to need to work through the legal process there in Puerto Rico. So that really is your next step, to maybe help her get connected with an attorney down there and just kind of walk through the steps here. Ramon, you sound like a great brother. I'm confident you'll be able to guide her in this. We appreciate your call today. Thanks for being on the program. We'll be right back. Announcer: Are you feeling overwhelmed by credit card debt? As followers of Christ, we are called to be good stewards of what God has given us. That's why our trusted partner, Christian Credit Counselors, is here to help. Their debt management program can help you pay off your debt 80% faster, while honoring your commitments in full. Take the first step toward financial freedom today. Visit faithfi.com/ccc or call 800-557-1985. Announcer: You look at three of the four justices there in Colorado that voted to remove him from the ballot. They all came from Ivy League schools, schools that had been created as divinity schools. What a picture of the apostasy in America when it comes to the church. Stay informed with Tony Perkins and his guests on Washington Watch. Weekdays at 4:00 PM Central on AFR or catch up anytime with the podcast at afr.net. 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Give today at faithfi.com/preborn. That's faithfi.com/preborn. Announcer: This is American Family Radio, a listener-supported ministry of the American Family Association Rob West: So thankful to have you with us today on Faith & Finance as we provide a hopeful, encouraging biblical message of financial decision making. You know, it's all about looking through the lens of scripture, holding what God has entrusted to us loosely so we can give generously. I would submit that's the primary purpose for which God has entrusted resources to us, clearly to provide for ourselves and our families, but I think so often we get stuck in an endless list of needs and wants, never getting beyond that to the opportunity to serve those on our path and be generous supporting the work of the Lord. Think about that today as you consider your role as a steward in managing God's money. Let's head to Franklin, Tennessee. Dina, go ahead. Dina: Hello, my question. My husband and I have been married for 55 years and have been tithing for 55 years, so everything we earned, we tithed. We are over 65, and when we turned 65, we started drawing our Social Security and have continued to work part-time. We tithe our part-time income, we tithe our Social Security income. We get some money from investments and we tithe that money. My question is, what is the biblical, not mandate, but just for tithing Social Security if you've already tithed everything you made? And then you're drawing Social Security. What's the answer to that question? Rob West: Well, it's a great question, and actually we have an article in the current issue of Faithful Steward, our magazine, on this called Tithing in Retirement: A Thoughtful Framework. So I'm going to send you as our gift here when we're done today, Dina. I'm going to ask my team to send you a copy of Faithful Steward issue six so you can read that article. But what you're going to see there is that we acknowledge that during your working years, tithing is simple. And by the way, let me just back up even a bit more and just say that this was a part of the Mosaic Law. There was actually three different kinds of tithes. And now we're under the law of Christ, and I think biblical generosity, New Testament giving, is really more than rules or percentages. It's a fully surrendered life of godliness, which includes, I think, honoring the guiding principles behind the tithe. But really, the New Testament teaches that our giving should be in response to God's grace because we've now seen what Christ has done on our behalf on the cross. Our giving, New Testament giving, should be given freely and joyfully. It should be given consistently and proportionately to our financial status, which I think again is why the tithe is such an effective guideline. And it's directed to causes that honor God, you know, the ministry of God's justice, and God's mercy, and God's word, preaching, teaching, and discipleship. So, I think, you know, we're not under the law, this is not about legalism or checking the box. But this idea, proportionate giving and using the tithe as a starting point, not the ending point, giving to our local church out of first fruits, which you've done consistently throughout your life, what Randy Alcorn, the author, calls the training wheels of giving, I think is a very, very effective way and way to think about our giving. Now, you call out something that I think is very appropriate to say, "Well, wait a minute. If I'm if I'm honoring the Old Testament tithe and I'm giving a percentage, a tenth, on the increase, and I did that on the gross, well, when I get into retirement, income arrives irregularly, it often includes money you previously tithed on." And so I think you've got one of two approaches. I think the first really is the simpler approach where you just say, "Listen, I'm going to see every bit of income as a gracious gift from God, regardless of whether any portion of it is a return of what I've already paid in, because it's coming from investments that I, you know, already tithed on before I put them away into my retirement account, or coming from Social Security, which I paid FICA taxes and I tithed on the gross before the FICA taxes were taken out, and now a portion of that is coming back to me. But regardless, I'm just going to tithe on all the income as it comes in, and I'm going to see it as a gracious gift from God." The second approach is an attempt, and I don't think either one of these, by the way, is right or wrong, I think it's between you and the Lord, but the second approach is an attempt to separate the growth from principal and tithe only on the portion that represents earnings. And I think when it comes to the tithe, it's difficult to figure out what that would be because you'd have to really calculate everything you paid in, which you could get from Social Security, and then you'd have to project how long you're going to live, which is an unknown, only the Lord knows that. But you could take a typical life expectancy, but here's kind of my rule of thumb: for an average life expectancy, I would kind of treat every Social Security check as 50% payroll taxes and 50% gain. And if you lived an average life expectancy, you could say, I think with good, you know, reason, that half of every bit of your check is just them returning to you what you paid into your working years, and the other half represents what Social Security will give back to you almost as the gain, assuming you live a normal life expectancy. So that would be one approach. The other approach is to think about, well, how do I do that on money that I've invested? And I think that comes down to how long you've been investing. A 30-year investor, you might take 60% of every dollar that's coming to you and think that's the growth, 40% is the principal. A 40-year investor, 70% growth, 30% principal. You see what I'm getting at? That's really the way you would have to work on this. Dina: I do, and I love your answers. We have learned in our 55 years that we can't outgive God. And I think what I'm personally what I'm going to do is continue to gladly give of all of it. God has been so good to us. We have counted pennies and dimes, let me, you know, but we've always given. There was a time he was unemployed, we gave anyway. And we didn't change what we gave, and God has been faithful. But I had somebody ask that question of me yesterday. They were asking me, and I was sharing with them God's faithfulness, and that, you know, we give of all of it, and they said, "Well, what is the biblical answer to that?" I didn't know, and so I had a minute today, and thank you for your answer. I appreciate it. Rob West: Well, I'm so glad you called. Dina: I appreciate your show. Rob West: Thank you, and let me say thank you to you, Dina, because what you just gave was a testimony to God's faithfulness that somebody else needed to hear. In fact, there's another caller who's holding that has been listening to what I've been saying. Dale, he had the exact same question: "Do I have to tithe on my Social Security?" And it probably comes from the same place of a genuine heart's desire to just be found faithful, because God is so good to us, He is our provider, He is faithful and can be trusted, and what an opportunity we have to return a portion of what's already His back into circulation in His economy. And I think anytime we can give testimony to God's goodness and His faithfulness, that's an encouragement to somebody else, and that's exactly what you've done today. So, thank you for being on our airwaves, thank you for your encouragement to me and the program, and I'm going to ask you to hold, and we're going to get you a copy of this magazine, and maybe you can pass it along to your friend, okay? Dina: Thank you. Will do. Rob West: All right. Lord bless you. Let's go to Ohio. Brian, how can I help? Brian: Yeah, I was just wondering the best way to fund my Roth. So, right now I've got 70,000 in a Roth and 46,000 in a traditional IRA, and then I've got 200,000 in a taxable brokerage account. I was wondering, should I start transferring—I'm 40 years old—so whether I should transfer stuff from the traditional to the Roth or the taxable? Rob West: Got it. Yeah, great question. All right, I'm up against a break. When we come back, I'm coming right back to you, Brian. I'll give you my thoughts on that. It's a great question. A quick break and then we'll come back and chat with Brian, and then we'll head to Georgia and talk to Jenny. This is Faith & Finance. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Announcer: We need to just say, "Lord, I don't understand why these dark lines have come into my life, but I trust You because I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that You are good." See, I can come to a God like that, who loves me, who's gentle, who's humble in heart. Learn the depth of God's goodness. Join Pastor Jeff Schreve on From His Heart, each weeknight at 6:00 Central, here on American Family Radio. Announcer: Hello, I'm Sam Rohrer, President of the American Pastors Network, a growing national network of pastors committed to the authority of Scripture and preaching the whole counsel of God. We believe biblical obedience is the foundation for revival, and impacting our culture for Christ is our duty. For too long, the pulpits of America have been silent on the important issues, such as marriage and family and assaults on our liberty. Join us in the battle for truth on Stand in the Gap Weekend, Sunday evenings at 6:00 PM on American Family Radio, and visit us at americanpastorsnetwork.org. Announcer: As the leading advocate for the Christian financial industry, Kingdom Advisors serves the public by promoting the integration of a biblical worldview across every aspect of the financial services industry. And we serve a growing network of thousands of Christian financial professionals, equipping and empowering them to carry biblical financial wisdom to their clients, peers, and community. For more information, visit kingdomadvisors.com. That's kingdomadvisors.com. Announcer: Wondering who Faith & Finance recommends as a banking partner that aligns with Christian values? It's AdelFi Christian Banking, the trusted team you've known as Christian Community Credit Union. With high-yield checking, savings, Visa cash back cards, and a competitive money market account, your everyday banking helps advance the gospel. Visit faithfi.com/banking and use the code FAITHFI. Membership eligibility required. Accounts are privately insured up to $250,000. This institution is not federally insured. Rob West: So thankful to have you with us today on Faith & Finance as we provide a hopeful, encouraging biblical message of financial decision making. You know, it's all about looking through the lens of scripture, holding what God has entrusted to us loosely so we can give generously. I would submit that's the primary purpose for which God has entrusted resources to us, clearly to provide for ourselves and our families, but I think so often we get stuck in an endless list of needs and wants, never getting beyond that to the opportunity to serve those on our path and be generous supporting the work of the Lord. Think about that today as you consider your role as a steward in managing God's money. Let's head to Franklin, Tennessee. Dina, go ahead. Dina: Hello, my question. My husband and I have been married for 55 years and have been tithing for 55 years, so everything we earned, we tithed. We are over 65, and when we turned 65, we started drawing our Social Security and have continued to work part-time. We tithe our part-time income, we tithe our Social Security income. We get some money from investments and we tithe that money. My question is, what is the biblical, not mandate, but just for tithing Social Security if you've already tithed everything you made? And then you're drawing Social Security. What's the answer to that question? Rob West: Well, it's a great question, and actually we have an article in the current issue of Faithful Steward, our magazine, on this called Tithing in Retirement: A Thoughtful Framework. So I'm going to send you as our gift here when we're done today, Dina. I'm going to ask my team to send you a copy of Faithful Steward issue six so you can read that article. But what you're going to see there is that we acknowledge that during your working years, tithing is simple. And by the way, let me just back up even a bit more and just say that this was a part of the Mosaic Law. There was actually three different kinds of tithes. And now we're under the law of Christ, and I think biblical generosity, New Testament giving, is really more than rules or percentages. It's a fully surrendered life of godliness, which includes, I think, honoring the guiding principles behind the tithe. But really, the New Testament teaches that our giving should be in response to God's grace because we've now seen what Christ has done on our behalf on the cross. Our giving, New Testament giving, should be given freely and joyfully. It should be given consistently and proportionately to our financial status, which I think again is why the tithe is such an effective guideline. And it's directed to causes that honor God, you know, the ministry of God's justice, and God's mercy, and God's word, preaching, teaching, and discipleship. So, I think, you know, we're not under the law, this is not about legalism or checking the box. But this idea, proportionate giving and using the tithe as a starting point, not the ending point, giving to our local church out of first fruits, which you've done consistently throughout your life, what Randy Alcorn, the author, calls the training wheels of giving, I think is a very, very effective way and way to think about our giving. Now, you call out something that I think is very appropriate to say, "Well, wait a minute. If I'm if I'm honoring the Old Testament tithe and I'm giving a percentage, a tenth, on the increase, and I did that on the gross, well, when I get into retirement, income arrives irregularly, it often includes money you previously tithed on." And so I think you've got one of two approaches. I think the first really is the simpler approach where you just say, "Listen, I'm going to see every bit of income as a gracious gift from God, regardless of whether any portion of it is a return of what I've already paid in, because it's coming from investments that I, you know, already tithed on before I put them away into my retirement account, or coming from Social Security, which I paid FICA taxes and I tithed on the gross before the FICA taxes were taken out, and now a portion of that is coming back to me. But regardless, I'm just going to tithe on all the income as it comes in, and I'm going to see it as a gracious gift from God." The second approach is an attempt, and I don't think either one of these, by the way, is right or wrong, I think it's between you and the Lord, but the second approach is an attempt to separate the growth from principal and tithe only on the portion that represents earnings. And I think when it comes to the tithe, it's difficult to figure out what that would be because you'd have to really calculate everything you paid in, which you could get from Social Security, and then you'd have to project how long you're going to live, which is an unknown, only the Lord knows that. But you could take a typical life expectancy, but here's kind of my rule of thumb: for an average life expectancy, I would kind of treat every Social Security check as 50% payroll taxes and 50% gain. And if you lived an average life expectancy, you could say, I think with good, you know, reason, that half of every bit of your check is just them returning to you what you paid into your working years, and the other half represents what Social Security will give back to you almost as the gain, assuming you live a normal life expectancy. So that would be one approach. The other approach is to think about, well, how do I do that on money that I've invested? And I think that comes down to how long you've been investing. A 30-year investor, you might take 60% of every dollar that's coming to you and think that's the growth, 40% is the principal. A 40-year investor, 70% growth, 30% principal. You see what I'm getting at? That's really the way you would have to work on this. Dina: I do, and I love your answers. We have learned in our 55 years that we can't outgive God. And I think what I'm personally what I'm going to do is continue to gladly give of all of it. God has been so good to us. We have counted pennies and dimes, let me, you know, but we've always given. There was a time he was unemployed, we gave anyway. And we didn't change what we gave, and God has been faithful. But I had somebody ask that question of me yesterday. They were asking me, and I was sharing with them God's faithfulness, and that, you know, we give of all of it, and they said, "Well, what is the biblical answer to that?" I didn't know, and so I had a minute today, and thank you for your answer. I appreciate it. Rob West: Well, I'm so glad you called. Dina: I appreciate your show. Rob West: Thank you, and let me say thank you to you, Dina, because what you just gave was a testimony to God's faithfulness that somebody else needed to hear. In fact, there's another caller who's holding that has been listening to what I've been saying. Dale, he had the exact same question: "Do I have to tithe on my Social Security?" And it probably comes from the same place of a genuine heart's desire to just be found faithful, because God is so good to us, He is our provider, He is faithful and can be trusted, and what an opportunity we have to return a portion of what's already His back into circulation in His economy. And I think anytime we can give testimony to God's goodness and His faithfulness, that's an encouragement to somebody else, and that's exactly what you've done today. So, thank you for being on our airwaves, thank you for your encouragement to me and the program, and I'm going to ask you to hold, and we're going to get you a copy of this magazine, and maybe you can pass it along to your friend, okay? Dina: Thank you. Will do. Rob West: All right. Lord bless you. Let's go to Ohio. Brian, how can I help? Brian: Yeah, I was just wondering the best way to fund my Roth. So, right now I've got 70,000 in a Roth and 46,000 in a traditional IRA, and then I've got 200,000 in a taxable brokerage account. I was wondering, should I start transferring—I'm 40 years old—so whether I should transfer stuff from the traditional to the Roth or the taxable? Rob West: Got it. Yeah, great question. All right, I'm up against a break. When we come back, I'm coming right back to you, Brian. I'll give you my thoughts on that. It's a great question. A quick break and then we'll come back and chat with Brian, and then we'll head to Georgia and talk to Jenny. This is Faith & Finance. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Rob West: I'm grateful to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Sit back and enjoy. We're going to cover a lot of ground here in our final segment. We'll get to as many calls as we can. Before the break, we were talking to Brian in Ohio. Brian is calling asking about transferring funds from his traditional IRA to his Roth, essentially a tax conversion. Got about 200,000 in a taxable brokerage account in large-cap growth stock, 70,000 in a Roth, 46,000 in a traditional IRA. And these are both IRAs, the Roth and the traditional, not 401(k)s, correct? Brian: Correct, correct. Rob West: Okay. Yeah, and he and his wife make about 86,000 a year combined. You would not be able to do the transfer directly from the taxable brokerage account into the Roth. You could do that from the traditional IRA, of course. With the taxable, you'd have to pay the tax and then make a new contribution subject to the contribution limits, which you said you guys are in your 40s, is that right? Brian: Yes. Rob West: Okay, so you'd be able to do up to 7,500 for yours, and then if your wife has a spousal Roth, you could do 7,500 in hers as well for 2026. But you couldn't do any conversions, only from the traditional IRA to the Roth. You know, this can make a lot of sense just because you guys are young, you have a long investment time horizon, 20-plus years until retirement, and then, Lord willing, if you're in good health, maybe another 20 to 30 years where that money needs to last. So think about all that tax-free growth. That would be great. And it can make a lot of sense if you can do it at a reasonable tax rate, which should be true. I mean, we're probably in the lowest tax rates we'll see, maybe, in our lifetimes. And with you guys earning about 86,000 a year, you're still in a very good tax bracket. So I would look at converting that traditional IRA money to Roth rather than selling the investments in your taxable brokerage account just to make a Roth contribution. If you do convert, it's best to pay the tax from the money outside the IRA, so maybe from cash or proceeds from your taxable account, so the full amount stays in the Roth and continues growing tax-free. Because the traditional IRA is sitting at about 46,000, you may be able to do it over one year, maybe two years. You just don't want to push yourself up into the next tax bracket, so you could check with your CPA or check that yourself if you do it on your own. But I like this strategy a lot, Brian. I think it makes a lot of sense. Brian: All right. Would you suggest keeping it diversified, some in the traditional as we move, get older, or would you liquidate the traditional? Rob West: Yeah, do you have a retirement plan option at work available to you? Brian: Yeah, I have the state pension fund. Rob West: Oh, okay. So that's going to come to you automatically, or is that salary deferral? Brian: Automatically. Rob West: Okay. Yeah, so you're going to have a nice retirement there, and that's going to come to you on a taxable basis. So I'd put 100% in Roth for you guys, especially because you're young. Brian: Okay. Yeah. Rob West: Yeah, so I think you're in good shape. Let's try to convert all of that traditional, and then all new contributions—and if you guys can do, in addition to your state pension, if you could do, you know, the full amount of Roth contributions individually, you and your wife, between now and retirement, you guys would be in great shape. You may even need to start thinking about answering the question "How much is enough?", because you don't want to overaccumulate. You may be able to accelerate your giving along the way, but in the meantime, yeah, getting as much into that Roth I think is going to make a lot of sense. Hey Brian, we appreciate your call today. Let us know if we can help with anything else in the future. Let's go to Georgia. Jenny, how can we help? Jenny: Hi. I'm having a conflict with my mother's and my stepfather's property in Georgia. My mom passed away in '90, and I state that my stepfather passed away in '96. He has several children. I've hired two attorneys, different attorneys, and they just gave up. The problem is the other children will not sign off to turn the property over to us, and then if we don't pay the taxes, they won't either. In the beginning, I was told to pay three-year tax, three years of taxes, and then I can get a quitclaim deed. Well, now that's not the case. So what can I do to get this piece of property? It's not a big piece of property; it's just a sentimental piece of property. And two, my mother's children's names. Rob West: Yeah. And what are the attorneys saying to you that you've worked with in the past? Jenny: They are—the other side of the family will not participate. They will not return the letters, they will not sign them, they will not respond in any way. Rob West: Was there no will? Jenny: There was a will, and it was after Mama died—whoever died first, the other one got the property. But the will has never been put into either name. I mean, it's still in both names. Rob West: Okay, I'm sorry. So who—was it your mom and your dad, and it was supposed to be transferred to the other, or someone else? Jenny: No, it was my mother and stepfather. Rob West: Okay. And then what did the will say upon the passing of both of them? Who was to get the property? Jenny: The one living the longest. Rob West: Okay, and then what? After that? Jenny: It would be divided among the children. Rob West: Okay. All right, so the will said it was to be divided equally, right? Jenny: Right. Rob West: Okay. And that's your problem, because in order to—you can't divide a piece of real estate, and so we've got to have, you know, everybody on the same page, because each child is then entitled to equal ownership interest. One child cannot unilaterally put the deed in their name unless the other heirs agree, which is your problem, because they're not willing to do that, or unless you legally buy out their interest. So what do you do? Well, you know, the will essentially distributed it equally. The estate would normally be probated if it hasn't already. And then the executor or the personal representative, was that you? Jenny: No, that was one of Jack's—I mean, my stepfather's children, and she has died. Rob West: Okay. All right. Well, the probate process is needed to transfer the title to the heirs. And if they don't want to sign a deed transferring their interest to you, unfortunately, you can't force them to do it, even though you've been paying the property taxes. I would keep records of all the property taxes and other expenses, and when it's eventually sold or divided, you would have likely a claim to be reimbursed or credited for paying more than your share, depending on the state law. But if you want to own it outright, really the only options are to negotiate a buyout of the other siblings' interest, hopefully minus the property taxes you've already put in that was their share, technically. And if they can't agree, you really need to consult a real estate attorney about a partition action, where a court may order the property to be sold or divided. But this is ultimately a legal matter here at the end of the day. Jenny: Okay, well, can I possibly put a quitclaim—put a lien against the piece of property and let it go for tax sale, and then whoever purchases it has to pay the lien back, or the... put the lien against the property back to me? Because it's coming up to about—it's about 30,000 now, and the property's not worth that much. Rob West: Yeah, again, you're going to need to talk to an attorney. I mean, generally, you can't create your own lien against the property just because you've been paying the taxes. If you've paid expenses that benefited the property, which you have, then you again would have a claim for reimbursement from the estate or the other co-owners, but that doesn't automatically become a recorded lien. Tax sales are conducted by the county when the property owner fails to pay the property taxes, which hasn't yet happened because you've been paying them. There wouldn't normally be delinquent taxes to trigger a tax sale. So even if it goes to a tax sale, the rules vary by state, and being an heir or co-owner can affect the process. So no, unfortunately, I don't think you can place a lien on it yourself to gain ownership. So the best next step is really going to be to consult a real estate attorney about reimbursement, a buyout, or this partition action where the court forces the sale or distribution. Jenny: Okay. Well, there's no way I can do anything because now the county is riding our case about condemning it. Well, how can they condemn it if the taxes are paid? And plus, we've been cleaning it, cleaning the property, where we quit cleaning it because they could move in any time they want and take possession of it. Rob West: Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's not good the way they're treating you here, and it's unfortunate. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I think you need to kind of force a decision here, and the only way would be to spend some money and get an attorney involved, unfortunately, that can give you your options and hopefully press this case. If these people are, you know, acting adversarially and just trying to hold this up, that's a shame because they have the ability to really complicate things. But nothing happens, I don't think, here without an attorney getting involved. And you'd want to try to save the property if you can and not have it just slip away because of non-payment of taxes. So I think that's your next step here is to reach out to an attorney and see if you can go from there. Jenny, we appreciate your call, and I'm sorry this has been so challenging. Quickly to Patty in Indiana. Patty, I've got about 30 seconds. Go ahead. Patty: Yes, I just wanted to clarify. So, you can earn so much money and then before your Social Security is taxed, does that apply to... is it if the money is unearned, like an annuity and that, is it taxed at the same rate? Rob West: Yeah, so it's your adjusted gross income plus tax-exempt interest plus half of your Social Security is what determines whether it's 50 or 85 percent. And so, regarding annuities, a taxable annuity increases your adjusted gross income, which can cause more of your Social Security benefit to become taxable. If it's a qualified annuity, so funded with pre-tax dollars, most or all of those payments are generally taxable. If it's a non-qualified annuity, only the earnings portion is taxable. So at the end of the day, Social Security is unearned income, but it's taxable based on taxable annuity payments plus—which is a part of your adjusted gross income—plus half of your Social Security benefits, and then you can just look at where that puts you in terms of whether 0, 50, or up to 85 percent is taxable. I hope that helps. Unfortunately, I'm out of time, Patty, but thanks for your call today. With that, let me say thanks. Thankful for Sandy and Taylor and Devin, everybody here at FaithFi, certainly couldn't do this without them and without each of you listening and calling. So thanks for being a part of the broadcast today. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye-bye. Rob West: Bob Goff once said, "We won't be distracted by comparison if we're captivated by purpose." Hi, I'm Rob West. Comparison tempts us to measure our success against someone else's life, but when we understand who we are in Christ and why God has entrusted us with resources, money becomes a tool for our purpose rather than a scorecard. Jim Rasmussen joins us today to help us escape the comparison trap. And we have lots of great listener questions ahead, but we won't be taking your live calls today because this program is pre-recorded. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. Joining us today is my friend Jim Rasmussen, co-founder and brand ambassador at Pando Wealth and a Certified Kingdom Advisor. Jim brings a valuable perspective on helping individuals and families approach financial decisions with both wisdom and purpose. Jim, great to have you here. Jim Rasmussen: Oh, it's great to be here, Rob. Rob West: Jim, you've coached hundreds of Chick-fil-A operators, and I know that's been a specialty of your business, although Pando Wealth is expanding and serving a lot more folks now. But what have you learned about where comparison tends to take root in a leader's life specifically? Jim Rasmussen: Well, working with all of the families that we serve across the country, I've seen that this is a problem that is happening everywhere. And in my experience, the comparison usually starts in that business world, where we think about sales, and then we start to compare a little bit more about the individual line items to feel good about, "Well, I might have done better with food or labor, etc." But it's really about the bottom line profits: how can we make more? And so that's where it just kind of starts to take root, and then it goes to the personal side. Rob West: Well, that's right. Comparison can affect anyone. But Jim, what makes high earners especially vulnerable to this trap? Jim Rasmussen: What I see is our culture seems to reward or encourage that net worth is equal to your self-worth. And when I look at a lot of these business owners, they're taught really well how to run a business, but the whole purpose of a business is to actually fuel your financial plan. And then your financial plan is to fuel your life plan. And how many of us or them are actually sitting there thinking about their life plan? Which then, if you have no financial plan, you have all this cash, you start to just look around and go, "Well, maybe I should copy what other people are doing because they're smarter and further ahead than me." Rob West: Mm, yeah. And so we get caught in—I know you've talked about this loop that we have, where, you know, instead of it being around, "How do I beat next month?", it really should be about, "What is God calling me to, and how can my finances be in service to that?", right? Jim Rasmussen: Absolutely. Rob West: Yeah. First Peter 4:10 calls us to use whatever God has entrusted to us to serve others as faithful stewards of His grace. Jim, how does that idea shift our focus from comparison to stewardship? Jim Rasmussen: Well, what you start to see is every resource is a gift. And it's here to serve; it's not here to actually be a trophy that you put on display for everybody else. You are literally trying to be the vessel that God's using to reach other people, and when you can do that, you start to think about not how much can I give, but how much do I keep? And that allows you to start thinking about, "Well, who can I bless with this? How can I have an impact for the kingdom in this way?" Rob West: Mm, yeah. And so it quickly becomes about generosity, holding what we have loosely, giving it generously. You know, how does that shift begin to occur in someone's mindset as they think about their role as stewards, not owners? Jim Rasmussen: A lot of people go from believing that, "I deserve this," or, "I've waited a long time, and so I can control what I've got because I've earned it." And all of a sudden, you start to release some of those assumptions and beliefs that you've grown up with. And so you start to hear how your kids or family might say, "Hey, everyone has one. Why can't I? Why can't we go on a nice vacation?" All of a sudden, it becomes, "We're doing things differently. We're following our life plan of what God's called us to." And that's a gift that each of us have uniquely and individually. Rob West: Yeah, it sure is. Jim, do you encourage your clients to really think about a lifestyle cap or a finish line as you're working with them? Jim Rasmussen: We try to ask them what their finish line is and how much is going to be enough, but then we start to also ask, "Okay, there's only really three questions: How much do you need? How much do the kids need? And then what does God want me to do with the rest?" Rob West: Mm. What about that question, "How much do I need?" Because it would be great if God's Word said, "You should live on 62.4% of your income." It doesn't, which means it's between us and the Lord. How do you encourage people to go through that process to figure it out? Jim Rasmussen: What we typically want to try to do is say, "Seek God first." Ultimately, that's the issue. Rob West: Well, it's a matter of prayer and discernment, and if you're married, you need to do that together. Jim Rasmussen's here today. We're talking about comparison and the trap of having more and striving for more and missing God's best for our financial lives. We'll continue to unpack this and what it looks like for you, and me, and Jim right around the corner. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Back with much more right after this. Stick around. David Wollen: For your walk with Jesus, I'm David Wollen with Haven Today, inviting you to anchor your day in God's word. It's hard to walk by faith and not by sight. It's something we can only do by the strength imparted by the Spirit of God. Take King David, for instance. Before he was king, he faced what everyone else considered an undefeatable enemy. If David had walked by sight at that moment, he would have run away from Goliath in fear. But what did David do? He trusted in the Lord, was filled with his Spirit, and he defied Goliath, saying, "I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel." Was the danger real? Yes. And it is for us, as well, in this fallen world, but the God of angel armies is our defender. Get more encouragement for your walk with Jesus at haventoday.org. Announcer: Are you a financial professional looking to grow your practice while offering advice that aligns with your Christian values? By becoming a Certified Kingdom Advisor, you'll gain the biblical wisdom and professional credibility to serve clients who are seeking faith-based financial guidance. Each year, more than 75,000 people search for a Certified Kingdom Advisor. 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To explore a new way of investing that aligns with your values, more information is available at oneascent.com/faithfi. Announcer: Rising health insurance rates are pricing millions out of the market, and Christian Healthcare Ministries is here to help. CHM is affordable assurance, allowing believers to share the burden of medical bills together. You get simple, low-cost pricing regardless of health history or location. Plus, you can enroll at any time with no contracts. Break free from the huge costs and hidden fees of traditional health insurance. Learn more at faithfi.com/chm. Rob West: The cure for comparison isn't having more. It's remembering who you are in Christ and why God entrusted you with what you have. We're talking the comparison trap with my friend Jim Rasmussen today. He's co-founder and brand ambassador at Pando Wealth and a Certified Kingdom Advisor. Jim, you've seen identity shift from "I am in Christ" to "I am the person who has achieved or acquired this." What early warning sign reveals that our identity is beginning to drift? Jim Rasmussen: Typically, if we start talking with others, and we start to name material things that we have: "Oh, I just bought a lake house," "Oh, I have a nice car," "Oh, I got new clothes," "Oh, I went on a nice trip." We start to talk about material things versus what is God doing in our lives. Rob West: Yeah. Boy, that's a a common trap that we can all get into. You know, some listeners may wonder, isn't it wise to learn from someone else's investment strategy? So, you know, as we think about our own investments, what can go wrong when we simply copy someone else's portfolio, for example? Jim Rasmussen: It can seem like a good idea at first because others seem to be further ahead or going where it looks flashy and exciting. But what we need is permission to actually go where God's called us. And if we're driving from Atlanta to New York, we need to go on 85 North. If we copy somebody else's driving habits and they're going west on I-20 or south on 85, we're not going to get to where God's leading us. And so to me is you can miss somebody's time horizon mismatch. You can figure out that you might actually be riskier than you should be, and so you're going to have more anxiety because your portfolio changes a lot. There's a lot of unintended consequences that happen when you start to just copy or follow the crowd. Rob West: How does your prayer life play into this idea of contentment, Jim? Jim Rasmussen: Well, you all of a sudden see that when you're looking at your finances, prayers move more from, "Hey, I am thankful, I'm grateful for what I have," and you start looking at, "Hey, I might want this nicer house, this nicer car." So you can see that the shift, when you start to think with gratitude and following what God has for your plan, you'll see a shift in your prayers that focus from inward to more outward: "How can I be helpful with others and serve others with what I have and what I do?" Rob West: Yeah. You know, I think taking that inventory, perhaps a a gratitude journal of sorts where, you know, I know for a season in my life, I finished every day just writing down one or two things I was grateful for, and the shift that happens when you acknowledge that and see God's faithfulness and provision in your life can be a game changer. Have you ever experienced that? Jim Rasmussen: I haven't sat down and journaled as much, but what I've started doing is more prayer life. And one of the things that has made a big impact on me is just praying Psalms 139:23–24. That one says, "Search me, O God, know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way to everlasting." Rob West: Mm, wow. Jim Rasmussen: To me, that is where you have to pay attention to the tension, and then God will surface things that have brought you closer to the comparison trap that you need to address and remove, so that you can move more towards the generosity and gratitude mindset that will then produce fruit of the Holy Spirit. Rob West: That's well said. I know you often in your work with your clients give families permission to act on what God may be leading them to do. Now, I know that may be supporting a ministry project, maybe it's taking a family trip they've postponed out of guilt. What changes when they finally embrace that freedom? Jim Rasmussen: You can hear an audible sigh of relief. You can see their shoulders drop if you're on Zoom. You really can just see a weight lifted, and they no longer are sitting there thinking, "Oh, I wish I could." They know they can. So it's just a long dream will get booked for a vacation that they've been wanting to do. I just had one recently last week that saw the statistics of 98% success drop to 93% success, and he says, "Is that a big deal?" And I'm going, "Go be generous, because we want you to be generous." So it was just he said, "Thank you, because I really want to grow the kingdom of God," and it was just an impact that we get to say yes to. Rob West: That's powerful. Let's press into that a bit more, because I know at the heart of so many of these planning decisions and giving decisions is this idea of "Will I have enough?" And you encourage people to think, "Will what I have last long enough?" What's the difference between those two ideas? Jim Rasmussen: Some of those just goes from the accumulation to more of a distribution. It's really thinking, "Okay, God has been here, and when we're trying to say how much is enough," they're trying to plan every single accident or thing that could happen in their life, downfall, which means they ultimately plan God out of their lives. And that to me is concerning because God can't show up if you've planned everything out for Him. So we want to kind of see where's the responsible piece of that, and asking, "Will it last long enough for what you're doing?" helps them stop chasing more, more, more. Rob West: Mm, that's good. As we look to God's Word, and we talk about this comparison trap, Jesus' command in Matthew 6:33 is to seek God's kingdom first. How does that help us break free from this cycle of comparison? Jim Rasmussen: When you start to seek God first, you start to realize that you have a life plan. Earlier, I said we don't have one, but you do. And when you have that, you then know the financial plan is to help you accomplish it, you get to say no faster to the things that you're being bombarded with. That means your purpose comes before your purchase. That means your contentment is going to cool any kind of impulse buys that are coming your way. You're going to start to see an eternal return on your investment. Um, you're going to start to think more generosity and gratitude because you can say no to things faster when you know you're on purpose. Rob West: Yeah. Do you find that that's a struggle for people to really dial into their purpose? Jim Rasmussen: It is very hard, because we have to sit still and talk with God. And in this world, we are to go, go, go, constantly bombarded by emails and pictures on social media, and we get into this, "Well, gosh, I should be doing all that." Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So then, what is one practical step listeners can take this week to to do what you're saying, which is to realign their hearts and their finances with God's priorities? Jim Rasmussen: A couple of things that I was thinking of is first, go back to praying and reading Psalms 139:23–24. "Search me, O God." You could also just have an honest conversation with your spouse if you're married, or a close friend, and ask, "What do you see in my life that I'm too close to it to see? Would you help me just become a better steward of what I have?" Rob West: Mm. What about counteracting FOMO, the fear of missing out? Any thoughts there? Jim Rasmussen: Well, a lot of thing is is that every person is thinking about themselves. They're not thinking about you. And so to me is giving you permission to say, you're not missing out on anything. Seek God first, and He will remove that fear faster than anything. Rob West: Yeah. Obviously, you're a Certified Kingdom Advisor, Jim, and I'd love for you just to speak from your perspective to the role of a CKA as you come alongside your clients to both give them permission, challenge them where appropriate, and even provide accountability when you're invited into that. Jim Rasmussen: Oh, absolutely. The best thing is is that we get to come back and we understand that we're all here for an eternal perspective. When you have a long-term perspective, you make a better decision today. And we want to be that trusted advisor, just like every Certified Kingdom Advisor, that you can realize it's not about the money. It's not about anything except you seeking God's purpose in your life, and then helping you steward that in a way that helps you accomplish it. So having somebody that's not there to sell you or convince you to just give them money and talk to you later, having a relationship versus a transaction is vital. Rob West: Ah, so good. Well, Jim, this has been really rich. I'll tell you, this whole idea of the comparison trap, especially now with social media, is just so rampant. And really at the end of the day, it's an issue of the heart so much more than the money. You've given us so many things to think about today. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for stopping by. Jim Rasmussen: Thank you, Rob. Rob West: Folks, the cure for comparison isn't having more. It's remembering who you are in Christ and faithfully stewarding what God has entrusted to you. If you want to learn more about Pando Wealth, go to pandowealth.com. That's pandowealth.com. If you'd like to find a Certified Kingdom Advisor like Jim in your area, go to findacka.com. We'll be right back. Announcer: If we lose this culture war, we're going to have a hedonistic, humanistic society. Discover the story of the culture warrior, Don Wildmon, and how he went head-to-head with Hollywood, Playboy, the homosexual agenda, and the Disney empire. 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One important way you can join us in the battle is through a charitable gift annuity with the AFA Foundation. The charitable gift annuity benefits you, and it benefits the culture-transforming work of American Family Association. Phone 800-326-4543, extension 345. Announcer: We are grateful for support from Movement Mortgage, who provides residential home loans and reverse mortgage options in all 50 states. Guided by a mission to love and value people, Movement seeks to help individuals and families make informed financial decisions, from buying a home to planning for retirement. More information is available at faithfi.com/movement. Movement Mortgage, LLC supports equal housing opportunity. NMLS number 39179. For licensing information, visit nmlsconsumeraccess.org Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Hey, don't call in today, our team is away from the studio, but we did line up some questions that we will get to, and I'm confident you will enjoy them. You know, we hear from so many of you that tell us that God is at work through this ministry in your life, and we're so grateful. If you want to support our work here at Faith & Finance, the easiest way to do that is for you to become a FaithFi Partner. Just head to faithfi.com and click "Give" and as a way of encouraging you in your stewardship journey, we'll send you all kinds of resources every quarter. Just go to faithfi.com/give. Let's go to Palm Bay, Florida. Anne, go right ahead. Anne: Good afternoon, Rob. Thank you for taking my call. I've been trying to get on for a while. Okay. Rob West: Oh, I'm so glad you got through. Anne: Thank you. This is my story. My husband purchased a piece of land about 21-22 years ago. He has since passed, and it was in both our names. Before he passed, he took his name off, and my name is left. Now, I have been getting a lot of offers for this land, and when I checked on property appraiser, it said that I paid zero for it. And I know I paid—we paid $30,000. I don't know what he did when he took off his name, but then I've been getting offers for about $145,000 for this piece of land that we purchased for $30,000. I would just like to know how would the capital gains play into this sale? Rob West: Yeah. How much do you think you'll have in profit from the sale? Anne: Well, we paid $30,000, and they're offering $145,000 to $150,000. Rob West: Got it. Okay. Yeah, so you would likely be in—this would be a long-term capital gain, and the long-term capital gains rates currently, if you were to sell this in 2026, would be anywhere from 0% to 20%. For most taxpayers with a lower taxable income, it would be 0%. Once you get above $90,000—and that includes the gain itself plus your other taxable income, which is where you would likely be—it would put you in a 15% capital gains bracket, and it doesn't go to 20% until you get up above a half a million dollars. So you would be in that 15%, so if you got an offer, let's say you sold it for $145,000 minus your original cost basis of $30,000, you'd have $115,000 worth of gain, and then 15% of that is around $17,000. Now, those are rough numbers, you'd have to work with your CPA. And don't worry about that form that showed you the 0% capital gain because the cost basis is reported by you on the tax return when the property is sold. So there's an IRS form where you'd enter the date you acquired it, the date you sold it, the sales proceeds, and the cost basis, which is what you paid for it, and then adjusted for any other money you put in to improve the property, and then any selling expenses, things like that. And all that would go—would flow down to Schedule D, which would calculate your taxable gain or loss, and then, like I said, you would likely be at the 15% rate, which would be about $17,000 in total capital gains paid. Does that make sense? Anne: Yes, it does. It does. Thank you very, very much. Thank you very much. I do enjoy your program. Rob West: Well, thank you, Anne. I appreciate your call today. Lord bless you. Let's go to Ramon in Winter Haven. How can I help? Ramon: Yes, I have a family issue. My mother who died left my sister a house in Puerto Rico. The bills and everything that got paid into it was in other people's names, and I'm wondering—she's got the house, my mom didn't get to put the name there. I'm wondering in Puerto Rico, what is the form that you—because my sister's been living there for like a year—what is the form of getting a deed or getting the ownership of the house notarized for my sister or something like that? Rob West: Yeah. And where is the property located, Ramon? Ramon: It's Lares, L-A-R-E-S, Puerto Rico. Rob West: Okay, so the property is in Puerto Rico, and that's where your sister and your mom—your mom who passed away—lived? Ramon: Yeah, my mom who passed away lived there, but then gave it to her. She asked me if I wanted it anyway, I said no, leave it to my sister. So— Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, the challenge is because the property is in Puerto Rico, the answer depends on Puerto Rican law, not the law of the state where you live, certainly. I mean, the general principles are if your mom had a valid will that left the home to your sister, that would go through the legal process in Puerto Rico so the property could be transferred into her name. If there's no will, the estate would likely go through Puerto Rico's intestacy process, similar to the U.S., where the property would be distributed according to inheritance laws. It may not automatically go to the sister in that case. And even if everyone in the family agrees that mom intended for your sister to receive the home, the intent alone is not generally enough to transfer the legal title. The proper legal process would have to be followed. But at the end of the day, you need to contact a Puerto Rico probate attorney or a notary experienced in Puerto Rico estate law to kind of walk you through the process. I would not be able to tell you how that would work. Ramon: Right. And it's kind of hard because back in the old days, the parents, you know, they were kind of slow to do things. And back in the old day, a little bit, you know, not smart enough like today's generation, but, you know, we love them, they helped us grow up. But, you know, they didn't do these little things like having a notary saying that this belongs to my sister to take it to the Puerto Rican county and file it and everything. Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. No, I certainly understand that. I'm sure they passed on a lot that was really valuable to you all, but maybe they were not as skilled in this area of having their estate in order and financial management. Nevertheless, I think the key here is, given where we find ourselves, there's going to be a process for intestacy in Puerto Rico, just like there is here, where there's not a valid will. The estate—the probate courts would likely be the ones, according to Puerto Rican law, to tell you exactly how this needs to transfer given the absence of a valid will. And however that plays out, if there's agreement, it could ultimately get to the hands of your sister, who I suspect is still living there. But that's all going to need to work through the legal process there in Puerto Rico. So that really is your next step, to maybe help her get connected with an attorney down there and just kind of walk through the steps here. Ramon, you sound like a great brother. I'm confident you'll be able to guide her in this. We appreciate your call today. Thanks for being on the program. We'll be right back. Announcer: Are you feeling overwhelmed by credit card debt? As followers of Christ, we are called to be good stewards of what God has given us. That's why our trusted partner, Christian Credit Counselors, is here to help. Their debt management program can help you pay off your debt 80% faster, while honoring your commitments in full. Take the first step toward financial freedom today. Visit faithfi.com/ccc or call 800-557-1985. Announcer: You look at three of the four justices there in Colorado that voted to remove him from the ballot. They all came from Ivy League schools, schools that had been created as divinity schools. What a picture of the apostasy in America when it comes to the church. Stay informed with Tony Perkins and his guests on Washington Watch. Weekdays at 4:00 PM Central on AFR or catch up anytime with the podcast at afr.net. 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Download the FaithFi app from your App Store or at faithfi.com/app. That's faithfi.com/app. Announcer: Hello, my name is Andy Miller, and I'm the president of Wesley Biblical Seminary, based in Ridgeland, Mississippi. We are developing trusted leaders for faithful churches, and we do that based on the authority of scripture and in the reality that Christians can be transformed. We do that also through bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degrees. We'd love for you to learn more about Wesley Biblical Seminary at wbs.edu, where we're developing trusted leaders for faithful churches. Announcer: Every day, thousands of women face an unexpected pregnancy—scared, alone, and unsure where to turn. FaithFi is partnering with Preborn and you to bring the hope of Jesus to these mothers through free ultrasounds at pregnancy centers across America. When a mother sees her baby's heartbeat, everything changes. Your gift of just $28 saves a life and shares the love of Christ. Give today at faithfi.com/preborn. That's faithfi.com/preborn. Announcer: This is American Family Radio, a listener-supported ministry of the American Family Association Rob West: So thankful to have you with us today on Faith & Finance as we provide a hopeful, encouraging biblical message of financial decision making. You know, it's all about looking through the lens of scripture, holding what God has entrusted to us loosely so we can give generously. I would submit that's the primary purpose for which God has entrusted resources to us, clearly to provide for ourselves and our families, but I think so often we get stuck in an endless list of needs and wants, never getting beyond that to the opportunity to serve those on our path and be generous supporting the work of the Lord. Think about that today as you consider your role as a steward in managing God's money. Let's head to Franklin, Tennessee. Dina, go ahead. Dina: Hello, my question. My husband and I have been married for 55 years and have been tithing for 55 years, so everything we earned, we tithed. We are over 65, and when we turned 65, we started drawing our Social Security and have continued to work part-time. We tithe our part-time income, we tithe our Social Security income. We get some money from investments and we tithe that money. My question is, what is the biblical, not mandate, but just for tithing Social Security if you've already tithed everything you made? And then you're drawing Social Security. What's the answer to that question? Rob West: Well, it's a great question, and actually we have an article in the current issue of Faithful Steward, our magazine, on this called Tithing in Retirement: A Thoughtful Framework. So I'm going to send you as our gift here when we're done today, Dina. I'm going to ask my team to send you a copy of Faithful Steward issue six so you can read that article. But what you're going to see there is that we acknowledge that during your working years, tithing is simple. And by the way, let me just back up even a bit more and just say that this was a part of the Mosaic Law. There was actually three different kinds of tithes. And now we're under the law of Christ, and I think biblical generosity, New Testament giving, is really more than rules or percentages. It's a fully surrendered life of godliness, which includes, I think, honoring the guiding principles behind the tithe. But really, the New Testament teaches that our giving should be in response to God's grace because we've now seen what Christ has done on our behalf on the cross. Our giving, New Testament giving, should be given freely and joyfully. It should be given consistently and proportionately to our financial status, which I think again is why the tithe is such an effective guideline. And it's directed to causes that honor God, you know, the ministry of God's justice, and God's mercy, and God's word, preaching, teaching, and discipleship. So, I think, you know, we're not under the law, this is not about legalism or checking the box. But this idea, proportionate giving and using the tithe as a starting point, not the ending point, giving to our local church out of first fruits, which you've done consistently throughout your life, what Randy Alcorn, the author, calls the training wheels of giving, I think is a very, very effective way and way to think about our giving. Now, you call out something that I think is very appropriate to say, "Well, wait a minute. If I'm if I'm honoring the Old Testament tithe and I'm giving a percentage, a tenth, on the increase, and I did that on the gross, well, when I get into retirement, income arrives irregularly, it often includes money you previously tithed on." And so I think you've got one of two approaches. I think the first really is the simpler approach where you just say, "Listen, I'm going to see every bit of income as a gracious gift from God, regardless of whether any portion of it is a return of what I've already paid in, because it's coming from investments that I, you know, already tithed on before I put them away into my retirement account, or coming from Social Security, which I paid FICA taxes and I tithed on the gross before the FICA taxes were taken out, and now a portion of that is coming back to me. But regardless, I'm just going to tithe on all the income as it comes in, and I'm going to see it as a gracious gift from God." The second approach is an attempt, and I don't think either one of these, by the way, is right or wrong, I think it's between you and the Lord, but the second approach is an attempt to separate the growth from principal and tithe only on the portion that represents earnings. And I think when it comes to the tithe, it's difficult to figure out what that would be because you'd have to really calculate everything you paid in, which you could get from Social Security, and then you'd have to project how long you're going to live, which is an unknown, only the Lord knows that. But you could take a typical life expectancy, but here's kind of my rule of thumb: for an average life expectancy, I would kind of treat every Social Security check as 50% payroll taxes and 50% gain. And if you lived an average life expectancy, you could say, I think with good, you know, reason, that half of every bit of your check is just them returning to you what you paid into your working years, and the other half represents what Social Security will give back to you almost as the gain, assuming you live a normal life expectancy. So that would be one approach. The other approach is to think about, well, how do I do that on money that I've invested? And I think that comes down to how long you've been investing. A 30-year investor, you might take 60% of every dollar that's coming to you and think that's the growth, 40% is the principal. A 40-year investor, 70% growth, 30% principal. You see what I'm getting at? That's really the way you would have to work on this. Dina: I do, and I love your answers. We have learned in our 55 years that we can't outgive God. And I think what I'm personally what I'm going to do is continue to gladly give of all of it. God has been so good to us. We have counted pennies and dimes, let me, you know, but we've always given. There was a time he was unemployed, we gave anyway. And we didn't change what we gave, and God has been faithful. But I had somebody ask that question of me yesterday. They were asking me, and I was sharing with them God's faithfulness, and that, you know, we give of all of it, and they said, "Well, what is the biblical answer to that?" I didn't know, and so I had a minute today, and thank you for your answer. I appreciate it. Rob West: Well, I'm so glad you called. Dina: I appreciate your show. Rob West: Thank you, and let me say thank you to you, Dina, because what you just gave was a testimony to God's faithfulness that somebody else needed to hear. In fact, there's another caller who's holding that has been listening to what I've been saying. Dale, he had the exact same question: "Do I have to tithe on my Social Security?" And it probably comes from the same place of a genuine heart's desire to just be found faithful, because God is so good to us, He is our provider, He is faithful and can be trusted, and what an opportunity we have to return a portion of what's already His back into circulation in His economy. And I think anytime we can give testimony to God's goodness and His faithfulness, that's an encouragement to somebody else, and that's exactly what you've done today. So, thank you for being on our airwaves, thank you for your encouragement to me and the program, and I'm going to ask you to hold, and we're going to get you a copy of this magazine, and maybe you can pass it along to your friend, okay? Dina: Thank you. Will do. Rob West: All right. Lord bless you. Let's go to Ohio. Brian, how can I help? Brian: Yeah, I was just wondering the best way to fund my Roth. So, right now I've got 70,000 in a Roth and 46,000 in a traditional IRA, and then I've got 200,000 in a taxable brokerage account. I was wondering, should I start transferring—I'm 40 years old—so whether I should transfer stuff from the traditional to the Roth or the taxable? Rob West: Got it. Yeah, great question. All right, I'm up against a break. When we come back, I'm coming right back to you, Brian. I'll give you my thoughts on that. It's a great question. A quick break and then we'll come back and chat with Brian, and then we'll head to Georgia and talk to Jenny. This is Faith & Finance. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Announcer: We need to just say, "Lord, I don't understand why these dark lines have come into my life, but I trust You because I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that You are good." See, I can come to a God like that, who loves me, who's gentle, who's humble in heart. Learn the depth of God's goodness. Join Pastor Jeff Schreve on From His Heart, each weeknight at 6:00 Central, here on American Family Radio. Announcer: Hello, I'm Sam Rohrer, President of the American Pastors Network, a growing national network of pastors committed to the authority of Scripture and preaching the whole counsel of God. We believe biblical obedience is the foundation for revival, and impacting our culture for Christ is our duty. For too long, the pulpits of America have been silent on the important issues, such as marriage and family and assaults on our liberty. Join us in the battle for truth on Stand in the Gap Weekend, Sunday evenings at 6:00 PM on American Family Radio, and visit us at americanpastorsnetwork.org. Announcer: As the leading advocate for the Christian financial industry, Kingdom Advisors serves the public by promoting the integration of a biblical worldview across every aspect of the financial services industry. And we serve a growing network of thousands of Christian financial professionals, equipping and empowering them to carry biblical financial wisdom to their clients, peers, and community. For more information, visit kingdomadvisors.com. That's kingdomadvisors.com. Announcer: Wondering who Faith & Finance recommends as a banking partner that aligns with Christian values? It's AdelFi Christian Banking, the trusted team you've known as Christian Community Credit Union. With high-yield checking, savings, Visa cash back cards, and a competitive money market account, your everyday banking helps advance the gospel. Visit faithfi.com/banking and use the code FAITHFI. Membership eligibility required. Accounts are privately insured up to $250,000. This institution is not federally insured. Rob West: So thankful to have you with us today on Faith & Finance as we provide a hopeful, encouraging biblical message of financial decision making. You know, it's all about looking through the lens of scripture, holding what God has entrusted to us loosely so we can give generously. I would submit that's the primary purpose for which God has entrusted resources to us, clearly to provide for ourselves and our families, but I think so often we get stuck in an endless list of needs and wants, never getting beyond that to the opportunity to serve those on our path and be generous supporting the work of the Lord. Think about that today as you consider your role as a steward in managing God's money. Let's head to Franklin, Tennessee. Dina, go ahead. Dina: Hello, my question. My husband and I have been married for 55 years and have been tithing for 55 years, so everything we earned, we tithed. We are over 65, and when we turned 65, we started drawing our Social Security and have continued to work part-time. We tithe our part-time income, we tithe our Social Security income. We get some money from investments and we tithe that money. My question is, what is the biblical, not mandate, but just for tithing Social Security if you've already tithed everything you made? And then you're drawing Social Security. What's the answer to that question? Rob West: Well, it's a great question, and actually we have an article in the current issue of Faithful Steward, our magazine, on this called Tithing in Retirement: A Thoughtful Framework. So I'm going to send you as our gift here when we're done today, Dina. I'm going to ask my team to send you a copy of Faithful Steward issue six so you can read that article. But what you're going to see there is that we acknowledge that during your working years, tithing is simple. And by the way, let me just back up even a bit more and just say that this was a part of the Mosaic Law. There was actually three different kinds of tithes. And now we're under the law of Christ, and I think biblical generosity, New Testament giving, is really more than rules or percentages. It's a fully surrendered life of godliness, which includes, I think, honoring the guiding principles behind the tithe. But really, the New Testament teaches that our giving should be in response to God's grace because we've now seen what Christ has done on our behalf on the cross. Our giving, New Testament giving, should be given freely and joyfully. It should be given consistently and proportionately to our financial status, which I think again is why the tithe is such an effective guideline. And it's directed to causes that honor God, you know, the ministry of God's justice, and God's mercy, and God's word, preaching, teaching, and discipleship. So, I think, you know, we're not under the law, this is not about legalism or checking the box. But this idea, proportionate giving and using the tithe as a starting point, not the ending point, giving to our local church out of first fruits, which you've done consistently throughout your life, what Randy Alcorn, the author, calls the training wheels of giving, I think is a very, very effective way and way to think about our giving. Now, you call out something that I think is very appropriate to say, "Well, wait a minute. If I'm if I'm honoring the Old Testament tithe and I'm giving a percentage, a tenth, on the increase, and I did that on the gross, well, when I get into retirement, income arrives irregularly, it often includes money you previously tithed on." And so I think you've got one of two approaches. I think the first really is the simpler approach where you just say, "Listen, I'm going to see every bit of income as a gracious gift from God, regardless of whether any portion of it is a return of what I've already paid in, because it's coming from investments that I, you know, already tithed on before I put them away into my retirement account, or coming from Social Security, which I paid FICA taxes and I tithed on the gross before the FICA taxes were taken out, and now a portion of that is coming back to me. But regardless, I'm just going to tithe on all the income as it comes in, and I'm going to see it as a gracious gift from God." The second approach is an attempt, and I don't think either one of these, by the way, is right or wrong, I think it's between you and the Lord, but the second approach is an attempt to separate the growth from principal and tithe only on the portion that represents earnings. And I think when it comes to the tithe, it's difficult to figure out what that would be because you'd have to really calculate everything you paid in, which you could get from Social Security, and then you'd have to project how long you're going to live, which is an unknown, only the Lord knows that. But you could take a typical life expectancy, but here's kind of my rule of thumb: for an average life expectancy, I would kind of treat every Social Security check as 50% payroll taxes and 50% gain. And if you lived an average life expectancy, you could say, I think with good, you know, reason, that half of every bit of your check is just them returning to you what you paid into your working years, and the other half represents what Social Security will give back to you almost as the gain, assuming you live a normal life expectancy. So that would be one approach. The other approach is to think about, well, how do I do that on money that I've invested? And I think that comes down to how long you've been investing. A 30-year investor, you might take 60% of every dollar that's coming to you and think that's the growth, 40% is the principal. A 40-year investor, 70% growth, 30% principal. You see what I'm getting at? That's really the way you would have to work on this. Dina: I do, and I love your answers. We have learned in our 55 years that we can't outgive God. And I think what I'm personally what I'm going to do is continue to gladly give of all of it. God has been so good to us. We have counted pennies and dimes, let me, you know, but we've always given. There was a time he was unemployed, we gave anyway. And we didn't change what we gave, and God has been faithful. But I had somebody ask that question of me yesterday. They were asking me, and I was sharing with them God's faithfulness, and that, you know, we give of all of it, and they said, "Well, what is the biblical answer to that?" I didn't know, and so I had a minute today, and thank you for your answer. I appreciate it. Rob West: Well, I'm so glad you called. Dina: I appreciate your show. Rob West: Thank you, and let me say thank you to you, Dina, because what you just gave was a testimony to God's faithfulness that somebody else needed to hear. In fact, there's another caller who's holding that has been listening to what I've been saying. Dale, he had the exact same question: "Do I have to tithe on my Social Security?" And it probably comes from the same place of a genuine heart's desire to just be found faithful, because God is so good to us, He is our provider, He is faithful and can be trusted, and what an opportunity we have to return a portion of what's already His back into circulation in His economy. And I think anytime we can give testimony to God's goodness and His faithfulness, that's an encouragement to somebody else, and that's exactly what you've done today. So, thank you for being on our airwaves, thank you for your encouragement to me and the program, and I'm going to ask you to hold, and we're going to get you a copy of this magazine, and maybe you can pass it along to your friend, okay? Dina: Thank you. Will do. Rob West: All right. Lord bless you. Let's go to Ohio. Brian, how can I help? Brian: Yeah, I was just wondering the best way to fund my Roth. So, right now I've got 70,000 in a Roth and 46,000 in a traditional IRA, and then I've got 200,000 in a taxable brokerage account. I was wondering, should I start transferring—I'm 40 years old—so whether I should transfer stuff from the traditional to the Roth or the taxable? Rob West: Got it. Yeah, great question. All right, I'm up against a break. When we come back, I'm coming right back to you, Brian. I'll give you my thoughts on that. It's a great question. A quick break and then we'll come back and chat with Brian, and then we'll head to Georgia and talk to Jenny. This is Faith & Finance. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Rob West: I'm grateful to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. Sit back and enjoy. We're going to cover a lot of ground here in our final segment. We'll get to as many calls as we can. Before the break, we were talking to Brian in Ohio. Brian is calling asking about transferring funds from his traditional IRA to his Roth, essentially a tax conversion. Got about 200,000 in a taxable brokerage account in large-cap growth stock, 70,000 in a Roth, 46,000 in a traditional IRA. And these are both IRAs, the Roth and the traditional, not 401(k)s, correct? Brian: Correct, correct. Rob West: Okay. Yeah, and he and his wife make about 86,000 a year combined. You would not be able to do the transfer directly from the taxable brokerage account into the Roth. You could do that from the traditional IRA, of course. With the taxable, you'd have to pay the tax and then make a new contribution subject to the contribution limits, which you said you guys are in your 40s, is that right? Brian: Yes. Rob West: Okay, so you'd be able to do up to 7,500 for yours, and then if your wife has a spousal Roth, you could do 7,500 in hers as well for 2026. But you couldn't do any conversions, only from the traditional IRA to the Roth. You know, this can make a lot of sense just because you guys are young, you have a long investment time horizon, 20-plus years until retirement, and then, Lord willing, if you're in good health, maybe another 20 to 30 years where that money needs to last. So think about all that tax-free growth. That would be great. And it can make a lot of sense if you can do it at a reasonable tax rate, which should be true. I mean, we're probably in the lowest tax rates we'll see, maybe, in our lifetimes. And with you guys earning about 86,000 a year, you're still in a very good tax bracket. So I would look at converting that traditional IRA money to Roth rather than selling the investments in your taxable brokerage account just to make a Roth contribution. If you do convert, it's best to pay the tax from the money outside the IRA, so maybe from cash or proceeds from your taxable account, so the full amount stays in the Roth and continues growing tax-free. Because the traditional IRA is sitting at about 46,000, you may be able to do it over one year, maybe two years. You just don't want to push yourself up into the next tax bracket, so you could check with your CPA or check that yourself if you do it on your own. But I like this strategy a lot, Brian. I think it makes a lot of sense. Brian: All right. Would you suggest keeping it diversified, some in the traditional as we move, get older, or would you liquidate the traditional? Rob West: Yeah, do you have a retirement plan option at work available to you? Brian: Yeah, I have the state pension fund. Rob West: Oh, okay. So that's going to come to you automatically, or is that salary deferral? Brian: Automatically. Rob West: Okay. Yeah, so you're going to have a nice retirement there, and that's going to come to you on a taxable basis. So I'd put 100% in Roth for you guys, especially because you're young. Brian: Okay. Yeah. Rob West: Yeah, so I think you're in good shape. Let's try to convert all of that traditional, and then all new contributions—and if you guys can do, in addition to your state pension, if you could do, you know, the full amount of Roth contributions individually, you and your wife, between now and retirement, you guys would be in great shape. You may even need to start thinking about answering the question "How much is enough?", because you don't want to overaccumulate. You may be able to accelerate your giving along the way, but in the meantime, yeah, getting as much into that Roth I think is going to make a lot of sense. Hey Brian, we appreciate your call today. Let us know if we can help with anything else in the future. Let's go to Georgia. Jenny, how can we help? Jenny: Hi. I'm having a conflict with my mother's and my stepfather's property in Georgia. My mom passed away in '90, and I state that my stepfather passed away in '96. He has several children. I've hired two attorneys, different attorneys, and they just gave up. The problem is the other children will not sign off to turn the property over to us, and then if we don't pay the taxes, they won't either. In the beginning, I was told to pay three-year tax, three years of taxes, and then I can get a quitclaim deed. Well, now that's not the case. So what can I do to get this piece of property? It's not a big piece of property; it's just a sentimental piece of property. And two, my mother's children's names. Rob West: Yeah. And what are the attorneys saying to you that you've worked with in the past? Jenny: They are—the other side of the family will not participate. They will not return the letters, they will not sign them, they will not respond in any way. Rob West: Was there no will? Jenny: There was a will, and it was after Mama died—whoever died first, the other one got the property. But the will has never been put into either name. I mean, it's still in both names. Rob West: Okay, I'm sorry. So who—was it your mom and your dad, and it was supposed to be transferred to the other, or someone else? Jenny: No, it was my mother and stepfather. Rob West: Okay. And then what did the will say upon the passing of both of them? Who was to get the property? Jenny: The one living the longest. Rob West: Okay, and then what? After that? Jenny: It would be divided among the children. Rob West: Okay. All right, so the will said it was to be divided equally, right? Jenny: Right. Rob West: Okay. And that's your problem, because in order to—you can't divide a piece of real estate, and so we've got to have, you know, everybody on the same page, because each child is then entitled to equal ownership interest. One child cannot unilaterally put the deed in their name unless the other heirs agree, which is your problem, because they're not willing to do that, or unless you legally buy out their interest. So what do you do? Well, you know, the will essentially distributed it equally. The estate would normally be probated if it hasn't already. And then the executor or the personal representative, was that you? Jenny: No, that was one of Jack's—I mean, my stepfather's children, and she has died. Rob West: Okay. All right. Well, the probate process is needed to transfer the title to the heirs. And if they don't want to sign a deed transferring their interest to you, unfortunately, you can't force them to do it, even though you've been paying the property taxes. I would keep records of all the property taxes and other expenses, and when it's eventually sold or divided, you would have likely a claim to be reimbursed or credited for paying more than your share, depending on the state law. But if you want to own it outright, really the only options are to negotiate a buyout of the other siblings' interest, hopefully minus the property taxes you've already put in that was their share, technically. And if they can't agree, you really need to consult a real estate attorney about a partition action, where a court may order the property to be sold or divided. But this is ultimately a legal matter here at the end of the day. Jenny: Okay, well, can I possibly put a quitclaim—put a lien against the piece of property and let it go for tax sale, and then whoever purchases it has to pay the lien back, or the... put the lien against the property back to me? Because it's coming up to about—it's about 30,000 now, and the property's not worth that much. Rob West: Yeah, again, you're going to need to talk to an attorney. I mean, generally, you can't create your own lien against the property just because you've been paying the taxes. If you've paid expenses that benefited the property, which you have, then you again would have a claim for reimbursement from the estate or the other co-owners, but that doesn't automatically become a recorded lien. Tax sales are conducted by the county when the property owner fails to pay the property taxes, which hasn't yet happened because you've been paying them. There wouldn't normally be delinquent taxes to trigger a tax sale. So even if it goes to a tax sale, the rules vary by state, and being an heir or co-owner can affect the process. So no, unfortunately, I don't think you can place a lien on it yourself to gain ownership. So the best next step is really going to be to consult a real estate attorney about reimbursement, a buyout, or this partition action where the court forces the sale or distribution. Jenny: Okay. Well, there's no way I can do anything because now the county is riding our case about condemning it. Well, how can they condemn it if the taxes are paid? And plus, we've been cleaning it, cleaning the property, where we quit cleaning it because they could move in any time they want and take possession of it. Rob West: Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's not good the way they're treating you here, and it's unfortunate. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I think you need to kind of force a decision here, and the only way would be to spend some money and get an attorney involved, unfortunately, that can give you your options and hopefully press this case. If these people are, you know, acting adversarially and just trying to hold this up, that's a shame because they have the ability to really complicate things. But nothing happens, I don't think, here without an attorney getting involved. And you'd want to try to save the property if you can and not have it just slip away because of non-payment of taxes. So I think that's your next step here is to reach out to an attorney and see if you can go from there. Jenny, we appreciate your call, and I'm sorry this has been so challenging. Quickly to Patty in Indiana. Patty, I've got about 30 seconds. Go ahead. Patty: Yes, I just wanted to clarify. So, you can earn so much money and then before your Social Security is taxed, does that apply to... is it if the money is unearned, like an annuity and that, is it taxed at the same rate? Rob West: Yeah, so it's your adjusted gross income plus tax-exempt interest plus half of your Social Security is what determines whether it's 50 or 85 percent. And so, regarding annuities, a taxable annuity increases your adjusted gross income, which can cause more of your Social Security benefit to become taxable. If it's a qualified annuity, so funded with pre-tax dollars, most or all of those payments are generally taxable. If it's a non-qualified annuity, only the earnings portion is taxable. So at the end of the day, Social Security is unearned income, but it's taxable based on taxable annuity payments plus—which is a part of your adjusted gross income—plus half of your Social Security benefits, and then you can just look at where that puts you in terms of whether 0, 50, or up to 85 percent is taxable. I hope that helps. Unfortunately, I'm out of time, Patty, but thanks for your call today. With that, let me say thanks. Thankful for Sandy and Taylor and Devin, everybody here at FaithFi, certainly couldn't do this without them and without each of you listening and calling. So thanks for being a part of the broadcast today. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.